does it matter how many bars a verse is?

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36 chamber music

36 chamber music

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what up fp...

i never post in this section so i hope my question is in the currect section of the forum.

i make sample based beats, my question is. Does it truly matter how long a body, chorus, intro, verse, hook, etc, is? I usually make my verses roughly 16 bars with slight changes throughout the 16 bars (ill change the pattern/melody a little after like 4/8 bars). Would it be wrong or wierd to make verses like 6 bars or 12 bars (or any other number for that matter)?

jw, cuz i dont wanna be making beats that are good but are just so called "wrong"...

thanks for any help guys!

might be a dumb question, but clerification would be great.
 
Hi,
Actually a good question.
Your verse should always add up to an even number. However you can have a hook that lasts an even or odd number before going to the chorus or bridge. The hook does not have to have anything going on in it or can be a simple sustained part.

Imagine a rollercoaster ride. Getting to the top of a crest or hill is is slow and it builds tension before the big plummet. In days of old composers would retard the beat (slow down) before the bridge or would add an extra bar in an off time signature. (Rush for example)

A song is a story. A good storyteller doesn't blurt everything out as fast as they can they use dramatic devices to hook the listener. Don't be afraid to let your music breath a bit.
 
ztar guy said:
Hi,
Actually a good question.
Your verse should always add up to an even number. However you can have a hook that lasts an even or odd number before going to the chorus or bridge. The hook does not have to have anything going on in it or can be a simple sustained part.

Imagine a rollercoaster ride. Getting to the top of a crest or hill is is slow and it builds tension before the big plummet. In days of old composers would retard the beat (slow down) before the bridge or would add an extra bar in an off time signature. (Rush for example)

A song is a story. A good storyteller doesn't blurt everything out as fast as they can they use dramatic devices to hook the listener. Don't be afraid to let your music breath a bit.
Click to expand...

thanks man, awsome feedback.
 
It can be whatever you want. Part of the problem with hiphop nowadays is the structures are totally uninventive and predictable. Changing it up a bit could only help. Listen to Public Enemy's Nation of millions and the structures are all over the place. Turnarounds, breaks, prechoruses. For something new Edan uses novel structures.
Nothing wrong with 12 bars.
Sometimes I might do something like this;
12 bars verse, 4 bar prechorus, 8 bar chorus, 2 bar turnaound/break and even have a(gasp!) BRIDGE/middle 8.

I (respectfully) disagree about the even numbered verse. I personally think you can do anything you want. My rule, if it sounds good, it is good.
Dare to be different.

Just to add, sometimes I have a standard 16 bar verse, 8 bar chorus structure for the rapper. Often getting them to understand any other structure is impossible. SO I make the music in the beat do all those changes without upsetting the standard feel. I make the first half of the thrid verse (8 bars) represent a bridge and the second half go back to the verse.
Often I will have the structure really simple, the Vocalist does their bit and later I put back in all the fancy sh*t and they usually choose the mix with the more inventive structure.
 
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drbong said:
It can be whatever you want. Part of the problem with hiphop nowadays is the structures are totally uninventive and predictable. Changing it up a bit could only help. Listen to Public Enemy's Nation of millions and the structures are all over the place. Turnarounds, breaks, prechoruses. For something new Edan uses novel structures.
Nothing wrong with 12 bars.
Sometimes I might do something like this;
12 bars verse, 4 bar prechorus, 8 bar chorus, 2 bar turnaound/break and even have a(gasp!) BRIDGE/middle 8.

I (respectfully) disagree about the even numbered verse. I personally think you can do anything you want. My rule, if it sounds good, it is good.
Dare to be different.

Just to add, sometimes I have a standard 16 bar verse, 8 bar chorus structure for the rapper. Often getting them to understand any other structure is impossible. SO I make the music in the beat do all those changes without upsetting the standard feel. I make the first half of the thrid verse (8 bars) represent a bridge and the second half go back to the verse.
Often I will have the structure really simple, the Vocalist does their bit and later I put back in all the fancy sh*t and they usually choose the mix with the more inventive structure.
Click to expand...


yeah i agree 100 percent!

i was just checking to see what people are doing around here. Being a huge fan of rza, pete rock, primo, 9th, madlib, dilla, etc, i undertand that different is good, especially after hearing madlib!!!
 
Yup, it's got so predictable that when you hear even the slightest change from the straight 16s, it feels so crazy.
 
drbong said:
...I personally think you can do anything you want. My rule, if it sounds good, it is good.
Dare to be different...
Click to expand...

There, you said it all.
If it sounds good, it's good.
People will always recognize something different out there if it's good, because it just stands out, and I think that that's the way to go.
 
Only problem with doing something different is that a lot of rappers who are the ones buying the tracks mostly don't understand anything different. "A 12 bar verse!!! thats not what Jay-Z does!!!!" IF the beat calls for a 12 bar verse I'll do it, if I doesn't I go back to 16. I do what the beat teels me to do, sometimes the bridge will be 8 bars and back to chorus sometimes I'll go 8 bar bridge to broken down chorus to chorus. Whatever the beat tels me to do is what I do and sence I made the beat I HAVE TOTAL CONTROL!!!!!!! <-----laugh thats a joke.
 
Wedges2 said:
Only problem with doing something different is that a lot of rappers who are the ones buying the tracks mostly don't understand anything different. "A 12 bar verse!!! thats not what Jay-Z does!!!!" IF the beat calls for a 12 bar verse I'll do it, if I doesn't I go back to 16. I do what the beat teels me to do, sometimes the bridge will be 8 bars and back to chorus sometimes I'll go 8 bar bridge to broken down chorus to chorus. Whatever the beat tels me to do is what I do and sence I made the beat I HAVE TOTAL CONTROL!!!!!!! <-----laugh thats a joke.
Click to expand...

well said
 
So who wants to make me some beats? I'm all about "different". I may be rapping about the same material sh*t, but I do it differently. Different words, different rhymes... Remember when songs used to be 4+ minutes and *gasp* they weren't on the radio...? I'm talkin' no skits, no intro, no outro, no songs "for the ladies". I'm talkin' killin' every verse on every track.

Oh, but I can't write a hook. I don't know what it is about 'em, but they elude me.
And I apologize for this, but I didn't intend on hijacking the thread. If you wanna comment, PM me please.

Thanks.
 
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