MPC4000-s/pdif-computer....

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quest5

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please help.. when using s/pdif between say an MPC and a computer...does it benefit to say have a £100 card with s/pdif compared to a £1000 Apogee card with s/pdif?
because of avoiding the convertors in both cases and keeping things totally digital,what would be the difference..if any? would i have jitter problems on the cheaper card?
thanks in advance.
 
Yes you may get some jitter but since I assume you are just transfering the sound for storage then jitter wont be to much of a concern.
 
if you're thinking of recording from the MPC to the computer by SPDIF then you actully loose the one and only feature that makes the MPC what it is. the DA converters.

that's where the really fat sound comes from.

just thought you might want to know.
 
If you sampled you used the Analog to digital converters..... or AD. the akai sampler line tries to have a color less sound unlike other sampler mfgs.

Use the SPDIF output it keeps it digital.
Unless of course you have some nice analog only gear to run your mpc through.. if you really did I doubt you would be asking the question.

SPDIF will let you get into your software at 96k (the max your mpc will do). When you go digital I would rather avoid some cheap converters that are used on low price gear because they just suck.

Apogee's gear does it's JOB verry well. I don't own any but have used it and a/b it on alot of stuff. It's worth every cent when your in a good studio with good gear but for the avrage home studio it's not worth thebucks because you robably need something else more.
 
nukles said:
if you're thinking of recording from the MPC to the computer by SPDIF then you actully loose the one and only feature that makes the MPC what it is. the DA converters.

that's where the really fat sound comes from.

Yo Nukles, Thanks for your help,
let me ask you..
Is it just the DA responsible for the fat sound(apart from production) or the AD also when sampling in?
maybe a silly question but I feel you know the MPC well and understand high-quality.
I was asking about the s/pdif into the computer as..taking your knowledge above into account...if you went from the akai,out the DA into a the AD's of a ****e soundcard, this would obviously '****e' up your beautiful akai sound,hence I was feeling s/pdif.
cheers...
 
both converters do have an effect on the sound. but when you talk about "the sound of an Akai Sampler" it's about the DACs.

for example, if a sound is sampled by a computer with the highest quality surgical converters, modeled at 32bit and made into an Akai program. then you load that into a few diffrent samplers it 's going to sound just a little diffrent from one to another. but load it in an Akai sampler, you get "the Akai Sound" of that sample.

that being said, if you are saying that you do not have a high quality audio interface for your computer but need to record the ouput of you MPC, then yes, the SPDIF is your best bet. it will transmit a surgical/uncoloured sound that you can model at will on the computer.


can you tell us a little more about your current project? more about your use of the MPC and the computer, etc. that way it will spark more ideas.
 
Just checked that remix of yours..nice :)
ok.
I write house and techno and am also feeling the hip-hop.
Been using just a computer to write tracks since (v.stupidly) selling some nice outboard..(focusrite green,emu etc...) for a couple of years now. Computers mac+pc are a bit rubbish(I've used both) .. I hate using a mouse to write (their aint no feel'in)and to me all soft samplers are poor in comparison to the real thing(I used to own Emue6400),Im also am not rating software compression.(I cant afford protools+bombfactory to check that) so...
Im sorting it out slowly£££££!!
I've decided to go the mpc route. Hooked up using midi to a couple of hardware synths monitored through a little mixer(and if necessary,i'll sample them back into the akai).
Im feeling that i will be using 'main out L' on the akai (XLR) going into my desk for monitoring and have 'main out R'(XLR) going into a patch bay for processing sounds if necessary. Hooked into that... a nice compressor-gate-effects-transient designer.Then have the patch bay hooked back into the akai ins. I want to keep the computer OFF! I hate it! so.. I want to work my tracks in the mpc until totally phat.(oh,please bear in mind that i always get my tracks sounding phat in mono initially and hence am chilled with using 1 akai out for monitoring and 1 for processing). then... On into the computer for stereo'ing ,panning,sequencing/ fancy mind bending audio chops etc... /+plug-in use if necessary,storage.

Im feeling the above(just using the 2 XLR outs on the akai)as apposed to the extra 8 out expansion(jacks),because i understand that XLR's carry a better signal.

Also... Ive still not decided how to get the track into the computer. s/pdiff or XLR outs. The jitters worry me (digital tranfer has never been done in my studio before! and Im totally into top quality sound). In your opinion.. would you s/pdif into a motu 828 from the akai or go XLR/XLR into it?
Also!!!,the 828 is a good soundcard but not compared to say an apoggee where I would be well happy to use the AD's but £££. I've just got the s/pdiif Jitter Horrors!!Im frightened!!
cheers.....Nukles
 
whew... that was a long one to read three times ;)

although i make music with the computer now (sold all my outboard gear) but i do not cut corners when it comes to software and test any hardware before putting my trust in it.

even if all my sounds are generated by the computer i do not mix them directly in there. i bounce every track to analog and back to digital for the final mix. the reason for that is that this method emulates the use of an outboard sampler and make the signal travel through a few converters, giving it a more "real" and "analog" sound (fat even). especially with soft syths like BassStation or Moog Modular. it prevents the sound from sounding too digital.

which is why you should not be affraid to use your outputs and record from them.

when one of my bands come in with their MPC, i hook up all the outputs and record individual tracks from them into Cubase for mixing. it's the only way of preserving "the Akai sound". if they have more than 8 tracks or if (i usually do) i want to isolate every part of a drum line, i do multiple takes and record 8 tracks at a time. that way i process every sound individually in the mix.

you are right to find computers to sound stale. that's only when you use free, cheap or built-in processing tools (EQ, Compressor, Effects..). i use Cubase SX2 and don't even use any of the buil-in tools. not even the EQ. i use Sonalksis EQ and now Compressor and some times i use some of the WAVES stuff if i want and old type of sound but still quality. those are just a few examples.

if you feel like the MPC4000 is your weapon of choice then i would suggest that you concentrate on a good mixer (16/8 or more) and use all of the outputs. that way you process your sound with nice analog EQ and get compressor. you'll have 8 extra channels fo your synths and can use 2 of the mixer's outputs to route into your MPC's inputs and record the sytnths in there when your mix is ready.

that way, you'd be composing with the MPC, mixing with the mixer and recording with the MPC. once your track is mixed you can then run it from the Stereo out of the MPC and use outbord gear to master it.

like in the old days after all.

when i was only a musician/composer that's the way i operated and those were the good'old days. it was pure creative bliss. now it's my bread-and-butter work that forces me to use a DAW computer.

i think that in your case, a computer would be more suited to preparing samples with, for example, Sound Forge or Akai packaging apps, and CD writing (if your MPC does not have one).

on the subject of XLR outputs.
the use of XLR outputs is the same as 1/4" balanced and will allow you to run much longer cables. that's what it's for. if i remember correctly, the 1/4" outputs of the MPC are balanced and should be the same.
 
The good ol'days, maybe I'll track my trusty old mackie24:8 down! where are you? I think she's living in Wales!
Can i ask, when you go out the computer to go back in, do you lay samples to DAT? or that posh 2 track tape stuff or just out'n'in on your cards convertors. I've heard people doing this technique. Have you checked Imperical labs Fatso?apparently beautiful and may well be up your street if you dont live with one allready. and...
What are your feelings,on Apogee/RME/and Lynx Two cards. have you any experience of either of them.

Thankyou for your suggestion of not using the computer at all(storage machine/chopper:).
 
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hehe, ised to have a Mackie 3208 myself and will be looking for oen as soon as i move back to Canada later this year. :)

when i do my analog bouncing i just run a cable between the out and in of my 828. 8 tracks at a time. i have a varied collection of diffrent cables that colour the sound from very clean to a little ****ty and it's deliberate. i also some times run the signal through tube pre-amps or EQs with no settings, just the coloration of the tubes.

some times for mastering i lay the stereo mix on a 2 track magnetic tape for nice vintage satruation and bring it back to digital (the essence of fat).

i like to "do what i feel" for every track, regardless if it's diffrent from the last one i made.

about the audio interfaces:
Apogee - Top stuff, professional at a reasonable budget.

RME - Top stuff for the musician, not pro but at the top of the consumer range. VERY STABLE.

Lynx Two - no idea, never tried. can't vouch and won't quote online reviews, i don't believe in them.

p.s. please let us know when you have a first mix of the House track of yours. ;)
 
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