Musicians of the 1910s & 1920s vs. Modern day producers

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djwebz

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I am doing a research paper for school and was wondering if anyone could share their views on how much easier it is to create music today than it was in the early 1900s. I am specifically looking at the jazz musicians of the early 1900s, because of the pure talent and improvisation it took them to create music. I am also focusing on hip-hop producers of today as the opposition. Musicians/Producers of the 21st century rely on production hardware and software to create music, which was not available back then. The technoligical advancements of today's music industry makes it easier to create music and become famous. What I want to know is: was it harder to become a musician in the early 1900s than it is now because of these technoligical differences, not to mention racial issues and discrimination, and why?
 
well obviously its 1900's

think about it, they had no technology to make things easier and it was harder to learn because classes and books were alot more rare than today
 
Are you questioning whether it was harder to record music, or harder to compose music???

First, you have to compare apples to apples. Hiphop is a completely different genre than jazz. Hiphop didn't exist in the 1920's. However, we still have jazz music today.

The second problem is that there is no real hiphop music. That's a misnomer. There are no hiphop musicians. There's rap, which is verbal, and the music used is taken from various music styles, whether it be rock, reggae, jazz, etc.

So, as far as music is concerned, comparing jazz music of the '20's to todays hiphop is comparing apples and oranges.

A more reasonable comparison would be the recording of the music, and how that music was marketed. The jazz musician of the early 20th century could not even fathom the ease or recording that we have available to use today. We have a forum of people here on FP, who all have some from of recording studio in there homes. A jazz musician in 1920 was content to have his instrument. The money available is far greater today. Most of the early jazz pioneers died broke. Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Eubie Blake, Dizzy, Charlie Christian, Louie Armstrong, none of these cats were rich. They performed constantly, just to get by. The recorded records for labels, but hardly saw any money at all from those recordings. They were stars, and they were famous, but they were not wealthy.

You have to also keep in mind, in the 1920's, jazz was looked down upon just like hiphop is. The classically trained musiciansa of the day scoffed at jazz music. It was beneath, and they didn't see it as creative. For intensive purposes, jazz music was the dance music of the time. It remained the music that people danced to up until the 1950's, when rock n roll took over.

The jazz that most of us relate to, didn't really eveolve until the 1940's. In the 20's, you had dixieland and ragtime. Beginning in the 40's, you had the bebop movement. Bebop was the bohemian extension of jazz. Jazz became hip and cool. It started to gain acceptance with young people who would frequent speakeasies, and after hour spots to hear Coltrane, Art Blakey, Charlie Parker, Thelonius Monk, charles Mingus, and others. Jazz was the hiphop of the 1940's and '50's. Swing/bebop was rebellious. Even conventional jazz musicians didn't understand it. The beat was hard driving, and it whipped people into a frenzy. Jazz clubs were perpetuated with sex and drugs. Most jazz musicians were addicted to either alchohol, coke, or heroin. They were truly equivalent in fame to today's rap icons.

I wrote all of this to say what?? Jazz and hiphop have a lot in common. To me, hiphop is an extension of jazz. Both forms are about musical exploration, and pushing the limits. Jazz musicainas use machines just like everybody else. They use computers, software, and even samplers. Did you know there are jazz samplists? Check out people like Barnyard Drama. Then you have Branford Marsalis, and his Buckshot Lefonque. That's jazz-hiphop at its finest.
 
With the advent of digital technology, it is far easier to create music today as opposed to even 15 years ago. I was reading a mastering engineer book where they detailed the mastering process. I woudln't want to get caught dead doing what they were doing. First off, everything was on TAPES. That means, if you mess up your note or your word, you have to start all over; no Punch-in. Second, if the vocals are too low or too loud... start over. Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V are amazing operations which replace having to use an acutal razor blade and projector to cut the tape and using some sort of adhesive to put it back to gether in the right place. If you wanted to mix vocals, you have to cut the tapes at diagonal angles so that you can have one sound fade out while the other one fades in.
Now they even have digital drum sets which you can play and it records everything you do into midi and it replicates a real drumset EXACTLY. This means that you don't have to worry about microphone placement becuase everything is done with sensors and the replicatoin is perfect without any outside noise.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/subcategory.asp?CatID=5&SubCatID=22

There are hundreds of other technical advances that make music creation a lot easier today. My best advice would be to get a mastering engineer book. There is always some old head talkin about "How we used to do it in the old school" and you'll quickly learn that it was pretty tedious.

Jos
 
Its really hard to compair both music to day to music back then. Like take comparing Present Day Hip Hop to Early Stage Classical Music, or Earlier Jazz/Blues. That almost like comparing basketball to baseball, asking whos the better athlete Tracy McGrady or Alex Rodrigez. You take Tracy and put him on a baseball field in the majors and hes the worst player to ever stepup to bat. You take A-Rod and put him on basketball court and hes the worst "basketball" player ever. But when you put them both in thier right settings and place....its something magical, the way they excel at what they do.

I remember watching this guy from Gemany playing the bass visiting my church once. He did some stuff on that thing I never could have ever emagined. The timing and the notes where something that tripped me out. So I went up to him and told him "Wow how did you do that." and I was askin him "Can you teach me" and all that other good stuff. He showed me some stuff and then he asked me to show him how to rap. I looked like what? But he saw me free-stylin to myself while he a was playing the bass, and he said" Its amazing how people can rhyme like that while staying on beat, topic, and measure." So what was normal to me fasinated him and visa versa.

Im sure if Eminem went back in time and met Edgar Allen Poe, Edger would trip out at how Em rhymes so freely and quickly while keping a topic. But see we can never actually do this because Edgar is dead physically. But Edgar can come to present and show Em his work . How? Just open up a book. And Em even said himself Edgar Allen Poe is a genuis. Works the same way if you take a Nas, or a Jay-Z and shipped them back in time, id be sure that people like Charlie Parker, Mozart, Miles Davis and other would marvel at the art Nas, and Jay-Z display because to them it isnt the normal and theyve never seen something like that before.

I know its hard to understand because its kinda hard to put into words but I think they are just two different art forms. Even though Tracy McGrady and A-Rod both play sports....they play different sports and that why its hard to make the comparison. Same with Present Day Music and Early Century Music. Both are music but they are different music which makes it hard to compare. Rap didnt exist back then but Jazz does exist now so if you compared Jazz now to Jazz back then then there could be a valid debate about it but this is kinda like Pop, Rap, etc. verses Classical, Jazz, Blues etc. Hope I havent confused most of you...if I did sorry....:D
 
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Wow! I didn't expect to get so much useful information out of this FP forum. (Looks like no library resources for me, lol.)
A few of the replies have led me to point my research paper more towards the similarities in the struggle between early jazz musicians with that of early hip hop artists. I choose these two genres because both were expressions of the people of that time that was reflected through their music. And both genres were discrimintated at first, although hip hop is still not completely accepted. I think this will narrow down the broad confusing thesis statement I had at first.Thank you all for your advice and please continue to post your views on how these two genres were very similar, even though they began in to different time periods. I am doing this paper because many do not realize how similar these two are, most people of today accept jazz music and treat is with more respect than hip hop music today and do not remember that jazz was discriminated in its early years just as hip hop is today. Just as jazz struggled to get the acceptance that it has today hip hop struggles to do the same to get the acceptance of tommorrow.
 
djwebz said:
Wow! I didn't expect to get so much useful information out of this FP forum. (Looks like no library resources for me, lol.)
A few of the replies have led me to point my research paper more towards the similarities in the struggle between early jazz musicians with that of early hip hop artists. I choose these two genres because both were expressions of the people of that time that was reflected through their music. And both genres were discrimintated at first, although hip hop is still not completely accepted. I think this will narrow down the broad confusing thesis statement I had at first.Thank you all for your advice and please continue to post your views on how these two genres were very similar, even though they began in to different time periods. I am doing this paper because many do not realize how similar these two are, most people of today accept jazz music and treat is with more respect than hip hop music today and do not remember that jazz was discriminated in its early years just as hip hop is today. Just as jazz struggled to get the acceptance that it has today hip hop struggles to do the same to get the acceptance of tommorrow.

Once again....Welcome to FP...:D Any more questions.....:p
 
Bebop became not just a form of music but a way of living, a culture. This is much like Hip-Hop is today. Hip-Hop is a lifestyle, not just music you listen to. What are the similarities you all see in bebop of the 1940's and 50's to hip-hop of today? Whether it be the struggle for acceptance or the way it effected the style of clothing people wear.
 
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