Ortofon Concorde 30 HiFi question :-)

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Moef

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Hey guys,

I'm a longtime DJ from denmark, yeah... the homeland of Ortofon. Unfortunatly the danish support doesn't work very well for them - the simply don't answer back on my phonecall's, so I try hear (hope you'll be kind to help me out *smiles*):

A:
I have used the Concorde Night Club E model since they came out (not the same stylus though hihi). As I don't DJ anymore with my records, I now really wants to keep them as new as possible for a long time, playing them.

B:
So, I have had those old Hifi Concorde shells for a long time, actually Concorde 20 shells, and have bought a Stylus 30 for them (Fine Line).. I still use my technics SL1200mk2, as it still plays as a new one :-)

C:
Adjusting things with a DJ pickup has really never been a big problem for me, but the new Stylus 30 is a hole different matter.

My problems and stuff:
1.
I have removed the counter weight on the tonearm, and replaced it with a lighter weight, that I think came with the Concorde 20 back when I bought them. this way its possible to set the much lighter pickup to recommemded needle pressure (1.5 gram.) - without using any extra tonearm weight. So far so good :-)

2.
Now, I have four other adjustments, thats makes trouble (maybe is wrong!): The Azimuth, VTA, anti-skating and overhang.

Well, the overhang can't be set to more than 15 mm. - so this is where its set on the Concorde shell in the overhang gauge. Is this good enough?

anti-skating is set to 1.5, the same as the stylus weight on the record. Is this fine, or how basic adjust it without good ears and test-records? :-)

And Azimuth is really making trouble. Lowering down the needle on a mirror just makes me doubt what to look after, as I can see much of the cantilever, plus its not exactly (1000%) in the middle of the stylus. Can anybody explaine how to set this correct?

And also important with the Fine Line shape, the VTA. Normally tonearm should be parallel to the records, but I think the case is different with the Fine Line stylus. When I look in the Technics manual, it says that I should meassure the height of the pickup. I have meassured it to aprox. 20 mm. which give a armbase height setting of 5. But now the tonearm isn't in level anymore, but I lower pickup base is. So I thought, is it allright to set it this way. Otherwise the stylus would tilt backwards, looking at it from the side, strange?!

Can any of you please help me with these questions?!

Reagards,
Moef
 
Hi Moef,

Sorry to hear that you didn't receive a reply from Ortofon A/S.

I have officially retired Nov 30th as VP/General Manager of Ortofon, Inc., after 20yrs w/the company. However, I'll be glad to answer your questions.

Your setup is correct except f/the VTA. The tonearm should still be set parallel to the record. This is true f/all stylus shapes, as it maitains the 20 degree tracking angle.

As you point out, overhang is not adjustable as it is set correctly by design of the CC body.

Likewise Azimuth is not ajustable but if it was a Hi-Fi TT w/that capability, you would look at the mirror and verify that the reflection of the cantilever created a straight line (|) as oppposed to (<) or (>). You would then twist the adjustment ( a rotateable headshell) until the reflection was as above.

Being abslutely centered is not important and probably only one in a 100 are. My $1700 MC Jubilee is not.

Hope this helps.
 
Ortofon said:
I have officially retired Nov 30th as VP/General Manager of Ortofon, Inc., after 20yrs w/the company. However, I'll be glad to answer your questions.
Click to expand...

No, say it isn't so Frank! We all hope you will continue to check in on our forum from time to time to give us advice. Thanks for the advice and information over the years - you have been an invaluable resource to me personally and many others in this forum.

So what do you have planned next? We all know that retirement doesn't really mean retirement. Hopefully you will just be moving to a phase where you can do all those things in life that you always wanted to do, but never had time. Take care,

jeff h
 
Thank you so much Frank, nice of you to help me out, as many people really don't know of the old Hifi Conecorde's from the 80s :-) I have asked around, and people is always saying, that Ortofon never has made Concorde shells, but I know they have *smiles*

Okay, about overhang, I can in fact drag the pickup out of the SME tonearm connector, and thereby reach a 15 mm. overhang. I think 17 mm. would have been better, but like you said 15 mm. will probably do it, right?! :-)

About VTA, I have read the some people here couldn't level out the tonearm, because the tonearm adjustment can't go below 0, and therefor is the armbase a a couple of millimeter higher. But I have and old AM antistatic mat, that could give me the last millimeters, so the the arm would be completely leveled out.

But it worries me a little, that the stylus is pointing down a little, when the tone arm is completely in level, so that the bottom of the stylus isn't parallel to the record. But when I raise the armbase to 5, the pickup and stylus buttom is parallel to the record, but tonearm is then not parallel?!

Somebody told me, that the Fine Line shape is very sensitive to VTA, and that it probably would sound better and more detailed if the armbase is raised. But ofcause, I only trust a real Ortofon guy *laughing* if you understand!

EDIT:
I have just fooled around with playing lots of records, maybe 100. And by that, I have tried to set the Azimuth on the mixer VU meters. Is this possible, if you like me, gets a general view of all records, and then sets azimuth so that VU peaks equal?!


Regards, Moef
 
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Its gold, to have a guy like Frank here. Strange that Ortofon doesn't do more like this on their site? The stuff on Ortofons site, is very basic. You should mean, that Ortofon wants the best for their pickups, and therefore would do much more detailes on the Ortofon site.

Thanks again Frank!

Moef
 
dynagroove said:


So what do you have planned next? We all know that retirement doesn't really mean retirement. Hopefully you will just be moving to a phase where you can do all those things in life that you always wanted to do, but never had time. Take care,

jeff h
Click to expand...

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the kind words. You're right on the money about doing all the things that I/we havn't had time for. (BTW my wife worked we me at Ortofon the past 9 yrs after retiring as a Flight Attendant w/American Airlines)
Being a "greeter" at Walmart also comes to mind...NOT -:)

And, of course, I will continue to stop by the forums from time to time.
 
Hi again Moef,

First, your "edit" : azimuth is the vertical position of the actual diamond, looking from the front of the TA, not the level on the mixers VU meters. Additionally, the meters would only reach equal peaks if you were feeding them a mono source. Stereo signals will almost always be at different peaks.

Keep in mind that you're using a DJ table for hi fi. None of the settings are as precise, nor do they need to be, when a DJ cart is played.

Your fine line stylus is one step above an elliptical so in the world of hi fi it is very good but not "exotic" to the point that any of the settings we're discussing are critcal nor will they be audible. In an ideal world all SME mount tonearms would have exactly the same lenghth and exactly the same headshell specs. They're close but not identical. That's why the headshells have elongated mounting holes. So, yes the CC is an ever so slight compromise with really no negative results due to overhang. (rembember that as a tonearm tracks a record in an arch, overhang is only precise in 2 spots along it's path, all other positions are a compromise)

Yes, the tonearm should be as close to level as possible. In the record playing position the cart body and the stylus housing will then also be level. (of course the tracking force pressure will cause the cantilver to raise up into the stylus housing slightly) This would also be true if the actual stylus were completely broken off.
 
Moef said:
Strange that Ortofon doesn't do more like this on their site? The stuff on Ortofons site, is very basic. You should mean, that Ortofon wants the best for their pickups, and therefore would do much more detailes on the Ortofon site.

Thanks again Frank!

Moef
Click to expand...
Moef....web sites are almost impossible to satisfy all. But point well taken.

BTW, you didn't mention when you tried contacting them. They are closed for vacation from 19 Dec until 2 Jan.
 
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Hey Frank,

I talked to a friendly lady at Ortofon Denmark, which told me that a guy would call me back after a meeting, never did hear from him. This fra in the beginning of december. I think I called Ortofon 2-3 times, and never talked to anyone that could help me. And I think its strange, that Ortofon denmark doesn't have a support Email address, at least I couldn't find it on Ortofon.dk?

Anyway, now we have Frank here, which probably is much better choice *smiles*

As for Azimuth, as you said its probably better to check the rotation/cantilever on a mirror. Its just, that when I set it that way, the left channel is about 1-2 db louder than the right channel on 80% of the records I play (12inch maxi's). Thats when I thought of trying to adjust the azimuth a little bit, to equal out the left and right channel. As you said, I can't hear any difference of the changes I have made. But I'm thinking of the records wear, which probably would be less with the right settings?! Like I said, I use a antistatic-on the default rubber mat, which raise the arm a bit, so I now can level out the tonearm 100%.

Well, I think I have done as much as I can do for my pickup and records with a stylus 30. VTA, Azimuth, Overhang, tracking force are set alright I think. So I'm just a happy guy with a new Ortofon Needle.

I also thought of buying a MC pickup with high output, but I'm glad I took a MM pickup.

Thanks again again Frank,

Moef
 
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