Placing two 808 notes too close to each other...

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erit2011

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Does anyone know to place two 808 bass drum notes together (especially two notes of different pitch) without having that overloaded bass rumble. Sorry If I'm not explaining it right - But if I put two 808 bass drops too close to each other it just turns into a mess of vibrations...

Also I can't seem to layer a 808 kick over a Sub/Woofer bass without getting the same overloaded vibration sound

(Just sounds like a big mess....)

Do producers layer sub bass and 808's Im not sure lol?

I've tried playing with the plug-in "Soft Clipper" it can help but usually just makes it so you can't even hear the bass once you layer instruments over it...

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

Oh yeah I've also tried using the Channel Pitch in Piano roll on each note ( kinda making a right angle triangle from where to note begins to the next note)

PS. I am using Fruity Loops 9
 
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OK, basic issue you are experiencing is side-beats.

Take any two notes, say 100 Hz and 150 Hz (chosen for expediency of doing the math) and play them together: you not only have the original two notes but the difference between the two notes and the sum of the two notes, what are called in radio terminology the upper and lower side bands. The amplitudes will be small, but these freqs will still be there.

Starting freqs
100 Hz - 150 Hz
Difference
50 Hz
Sum
250 Hz

So you have 4 notes now present 50 Hz 100 Hz 150 Hz 250 Hz. If these notes are played with anything but pure sine waves you also get small amounts of side beats off each of the harmonics.

A more practical example:

Low C1 = 65.41 Hz
Low D1 = 73.42 Hz

Difference tone is 8.01 Hz which is in the rumble zone (close to C-2, midi note number 0, 8.18 Hz)
Sum tone is 138.83 Hz which is close to C#2 (138.59 Hz)

Add in any harmonics and their interaction and you start to get real issues with rumble.

A fundamental "rule" of orchestration is the low notes are kept apart whilst high notes are pushed together - mainly because of the rumble factor you have just asked about and has been described.

As for layering subs, same basic idea - match the pitch, so that the sub is an 8ve below in pitch or the same pitch, keep your sub as a sine wave to eliminate inter-harmonic modulation/side beat generation.
 
bandcoach said:
OK, basic issue you are experiencing is side-beats.

Take any two notes, say 100 Hz and 150 Hz (chosen for expediency of doing the math) and play them together: you not only have the original two notes but the difference between the two notes and the sum of the two notes, what are called in radio terminology the upper and lower side bands. The amplitudes will be small, but these freqs will still be there.

Starting freqs
100 Hz - 150 Hz
Difference
50 Hz
Sum
250 Hz

So you have 4 notes now present 50 Hz 100 Hz 150 Hz 250 Hz. If these notes are played with anything but pure sine waves you also get small amounts of side beats off each of the harmonics.

A more practical example:

Low C1 = 65.41 Hz
Low D1 = 73.42 Hz

Difference tone is 8.01 Hz which is in the rumble zone (close to C-2, midi note number 0, 8.18 Hz)
Sum tone is 138.83 Hz which is close to C#2 (138.59 Hz)

Add in any harmonics and their interaction and you start to get real issues with rumble.

A fundamental "rule" of orchestration is the low notes are kept apart whilst high notes are pushed together - mainly because of the rumble factor you have just asked about and has been described.

As for layering subs, same basic idea - match the pitch, so that the sub is an 8ve below in pitch or the same pitch, keep your sub as a sine wave to eliminate inter-harmonic modulation/side beat generation.
Click to expand...


you sir, know your shit...haha i learned something new from that.. never really heard much of anything about side-beats...so thats something i'll be looking into:cheers:
 
He can also fade the release of the note. Each sample (channel) has a settings window, where in the second tab there are options to adjust the attack, hold, sustain and release. To the OP, if you can find those, get back to me and we'll continue.
 
This will solve your problem.

Go to the MISC tab on your 808 channel settings... on the right side of the box click on "Cut Itself"
 
Just have 2 different 808s and the one you hit first make sure its just a solid kick that dosent rumble and then when you hit the next 808 it can rumble because the first one is done rumbling so it wont sound like a ****ing murky mess.....lol...., just play it by ear...
thats what i do at least, and for me, it works
 
I tried messin witht he Mul and Time, but the setting "cut itself" seems to be working fine, thanks so much to everyone who replied.
And wow bandcoach thanks for the knowledge, Ill defiantly be looking more into that! And expirment more with different note combos.

---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------

I <3 Music
 
use the volume automation if you need to tweak just that tiny little bit. it could work too, but i like the "cut itself" emo approach best LOL
 
Give it a short release. It's in the second tab when you open up the channel setting in FL. Or F00T's method works aswell. This just gives more control on how fast it cuts.
 
If you are using the FPC in Fl Studio, set it to "cut itself 1 by 1" and that will make it so the 2 808 notes don't overlap.
 
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