Ableton vs. Maschine FOR sampling

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Boodah Beats

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Hey everybody, first poster here :hello:. Made the jump to make an account just now. This forum has been helping me a lot throughout my beginning months into music production. so thanks.

I know their have been a lot of Maschine vs. Daw threads when it seems like Maschine should be a complimentary thing. So when deciding I wanted Maschine, I really was attracted to the ease of sampling, and MPC style cutting/slicing sample ease. Is this the case?

For the ableton and machine users, is sampling on machine much easier/quicker vs ableton? Are there people out there that really think ableton is better for sampling techniques, or even better for heavy sampling use?

I've approached learning production by diving in to the depths of beat creation via ableton live with the intention of creating a strong fundamental base so when I finally got machine, I'd be able to start sampling a good amount and throw down good beats behind it (aka. remixes). As a result, I've purposely failed to learn sampler/simpler in depth on ableton. Does this approach make sense? Is this maximizing the best of what both ableton and machine are good for?

So for all you ableton/maschine or both, is my analysis correct? Is machine a great sampler, worthy of buying for that reason? Do any heavy sampling artists just use a DAW? namely ableton live?

A lot of questions were just asked, but any insight into this area would be extremely helpful. Once again, I'm mainly asking about the ability to sample other songs and how Ableton live fairs against the maschine.
 
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I'm not sure if I really understand what you're asking, but for one thing the simpler is basically for making a full keyboard (actually like 200 notes) worth of a single transposed note, perfect for basslines. The Sampler is the same deal, only with complicated LFOs and what not. I find the Drum Rack works best for samples and Impulse for drums (ironically). I don't know much about maschine, but I know that if you're using ableton, you'll have to buy a controller for it anyway. If you can really justify dropping $350 - $700 on the Maschine then go for it. From what I understand, the Maschine is a hardware/software hybrid. I doubt that the software portion can outperform Ableton, so I'd look into whatever the Maschine Mikro is, which might be your best bet if you're already using Ableton. If you do decide to get one of these things, make sure to find the best price because like I said, I've seen it vary from $350 to like $700.
 
Instrumental Asylum said:
I'm not sure if I really understand what you're asking, but for one thing the simpler is basically for making a full keyboard (actually like 200 notes) worth of a single transposed note, perfect for basslines. The Sampler is the same deal, only with complicated LFOs and what not.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. I never understood that's what simpler/sampler was, further demonstrating my lack of understanding of those aspects of ableton. Once again, what I'm really asking is how does the sampling music (such as music from my iTunes library) in ableton compare to maschine. Is maschine easier? quicker? I'm just looking for what people use to sample other songs. A DAW such as ableton, or maschine for heavy sampling projects, and how the ways compare.

I just assume simpler/sampler was in charge of that too in ableton live. Is that not correct?
 
You can probably do more with samples in Ableton BUT Maschine's workflow is like a traditional sampler on steroids. The only feature that Ableton has that I wish was in Maschine is the ability to stretch and warp samples. Maschine chops samples a lot like Propellerhead's Recycle but on-the-fly and more easily (in my opinion). Ableton is great for correcting a sample's timing more precisely... but then again those of us who've grown accustomed to using hardware samplers tend to just find other ways to compensate for a lack of warping in Maschine.
 
In my opinion, it's very easy to just open up a track in Edison, drag out portions. Then chop them up in the playlist, manipulate them, effects, etc.
 
maschine isnt for beginners, its probably the quickest way to sample ever (sample directly from audio jack) the sounds are top notch and you will have a lot of fun but i would advise against getting one if youre just starting out


the reason behind that is the maschines software is a pile of shit, its very minimal and will probably teach you bad habits. if you wanna make real beats with it you will need something like protools to track out the songs to arrange patterns, automate etc, that means learning 3 different things (hardware/maschine daw/protools) and will cost A LOT


If you want abelton I would just get a good keyboard and sample off the keys
 
Sampling in Ableton is dead simple...so simple that it doesn't even really need an extra device to do it. You can chop, timestretch, and flip samples from either screen. I make beats in it constantly, but only use simpler or sampler for very specific things...though I never really need them for what I do.

You can even make it chop sample MPC style...check this here
 
If you want "MPC" style chopping, why not just wait for the MPC Renaissance, or the MPC Studio to drop in 2 weeks or so?

Dont go to McDonalds and order a fish sandwich, when you really want sushi, ya dig?
 
Thanks for the responses everybody. I'm getting the drift that sampling in ableton to do cool things is fully possible, and just that machine makes it quicker (and slightly less flexible). So I think its safe to say I should actually learning sampling in ableton in the first place.

I was set on machine because it looks like so much fun and I want to sample. But I think I made the mistake of thinking that ableton can't sample well. Maschine is just faster.?

I have an MPK25 controller with modded pads, meaning I totally have useable MPC style pads, which makes machine even less worthy of buying? Anyone with experience chopping up samples MPC style in ableton and messing around on a pad controller?

So ya if anyone wants to confirm my thoughts, and if any more want to comment how easy/hard sampling/chopping is in ableton. Would be really appreciated.
 
Machine isn't all the way there yet to compare it as a DAW. It can do the basic things, but you can only go so deep into it.

In Ableton>

You can manually chop by slicing the audio and arranging it...the boring way without using a midi controller.

You can right click on the audio sample and go to "slice midi track" and have them automatically mapped to keys/pads.

You can chop a bunch of samples manually and throw them into impulse, sampler, or drum racks...

Drum racks resembles a MPC more...but sampler is better if your looking to transform your tracks.

Its easy and theres more than one way to make put together sampled beats in Ableton.

Watch a few of this dudes videos...I'm not sure if he goes on FP anymore...but he's into sample driven music and tells you what hes doing as hes making the beats.
 
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Because the MPC stuff is hella overprice, and isn't as powerful

StruggleBuggieMusic said:
If you want "MPC" style chopping, why not just wait for the MPC Renaissance, or the MPC Studio to drop in 2 weeks or so?

Dont go to McDonalds and order a fish sandwich, when you really want sushi, ya dig?
Click to expand...

Plus, some folks like a certain type of workflow. That ain't the only workflow ableton is capable of, either
 
I've heard from a few people that they like the combo and they compliment each other really well but I am not understanding how. I just picked up Live recently and I really like it but I am not seeing a lot of what makes Maschine anything more than a great creative tool. In many ways that's how I think of Live.
 
I've demo'd live and can't figure out sampling for shyt. I think everyone else has a different idea of "sampling' than me. I just want to drag an entire song into a program, chop intricate loops sometimes 4-8 bars long, stretch them to tempo, and be able to slice and rearrange from those long loops like I would chop up and edit a guitar session or vocals recorded into a DAW.

No one offers this option with EASE from what I've seen other than FL and Sonar(unfortunately, i'm on a Mac they're both PC programs). Pro Tools has functionality similar, but when stretching in PT, the plugs you use make it a tedious task, especially when you use Vari Fi, takes forever(imac Core2 3.06ghz just updated to 12gb Ram, still slow)I'm about to buy Motu BPM and cross my fingers that it's advertised "timestretching" can do what I'm asking.

If not, I'll just continue using FL Studio and spend another $600 on Maschine when they finally release ver 1.8 with timestretch. Just lame that I can't find an option for all the looking I've done.
 
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^^^ actually everything you just said you want to do is EXTREMELY easy in Live (at least in this man's opinion).
 
With sonar from what I think I remember is to stretch you hold ctrl and drag the start or end of clip?


You mean something like this?

In Ableton I would drag the song in...

turn off warping in the song or leave it on...this depends on what bpm your comfortable with. When its warped you you can change the bpm and it will sync in time.

turn off the grid snapping.

Zoom in and hold shift and highlight what I want chopped out on the song track.

Ctrl/Cmd + E to slice the selected area.

Now what I usually do here is change the color of my slices or Ctrl/Cmd + drag them to a new audio track...to avoid confusion and to keep the song itself intact.

Once you have your chops in...mute the song...and crop each individual clip because the whole song is still spanned in the clip instead only the part you've chopped.

At this point now I go into the clips and turn on warping and adjust the warp markers. The start and the end is where warping matters the most...in between is where you tidy up.

Continue warping your all your chops this way...

When your done you can duplicate any clip with Ctrl/Cmd + D.

Also say if you wanted to change the octaves or tune a bunch of clips at once...instead of double clicking the clips highlight them and at the bottom right of where it says audio...left of that should be a long rectangle click that. The process sounds like a a lot thought out but its really just chopping warping and arranging. When your doing it its quick.
 
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^^^That's my point. I think you'd have to use edison or Sonar's loop editor to understand how tedious of a task that is. Pro Tools is tedious and involves less than that.

The point is, I should be taking no more than literally 1 minute to chop/drag/drop a clip if I already know what I want to sample.

I just can't beleive a program like Live that boasts of sample capabilities doesn't have clip editing like any other daw. Warp markers ect are not the same thing as taking 4-8 bars(I'm giving extreme examples because if it can't be done, it's even a headache with 1 or 2)of a song, looping it, and dragging and dropping it for it to align with the tempo of your project.

All i want is what Recycle would do if it could stretch audio rather than make it choppy within a program on OSX. Everything from Logic to Live has this "chop" style to it where you're supposed to end up with 4-10 "chops"/loops to construct a song. Not how I work. I take one long loop and time it to tempo, then disect the loop and reconstruct it as the song goes.


Example: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11136798

^^^Beat


Sample


This entire beat was made from me sampling 1 loop that starts at 0:26 and ends at 2:15, drag/paste to tempo, then cutting and pasting parts to my liking. I've always done this in FL, can't do it in anything else. Solution would be, just cut 5 or 6 different parts of the song, but that's not how I work. I need enough to arrange differently when I want while everything being moved around still stays fluent and lands right. Alot get's discarded, but i like the option of using it if I want. Especially since when a song is made to it I may want to take other parts.

It's like taking a 2 minute conversation and rearranging it so that the guy went from saying "I don't give a f**k my mother is getting on my nerves, I wanna move out, wish I had your mother" and making him say "I wanna f**k your mother, I don't give a f**k, I wish I had you mother getting on me". It's something many people don't do, but I thought enough did the technology would exist beyond FL Studio.
 
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^^^ Less than a minute? Ok...

1) Import sample.
2) Set project tempo to match sample
2) Highlight part you want to loop
3) Click and drag highlighted portion to 2nd audio track.

DONE. Now you can duplicate/cut/whatever you want and change the project tempo and the loop will change with it.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------



The video is 14 minutes... but obviously you could do it A LOT faster if you weren't playing the originals, explaining everything you're doing, etc.
 
^^^OMFG THANK U!!!!

All I've wanted to make ableton do!!!!!

I guess I just need to turn warp completely off, right?
 
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^^^ it depends on the situation.

As with everything, there are 1000 different ways to do this, and the "right" one is only the one you like the best.

Personally, I turn Warp off, then set the project tempo to match the sample, then get my loop, then turn Warp back ON, and then adjust the project tempo to where I want the beat to be. Turning Warp back on makes the loop automatically stretch to the project tempo and stay on time.

Again, this is not the only way to accomplish this though, just the way I personally find easiest.
 
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