Beatmakers/hip hop producers why do you guys master your beats?

[sswmastering]

Im ranting and venting here and trying to get a little understanding.
Just trying to figure out why you guys out there make attempts at mastering your beats or instrumental tracks???

What happens when the artist cannot pull off a proper mix because you've given them a section of their song that has been sealed off to any further enhancement or editing or obtaining a good balance between vocals and music?

What happens when the artist wants a song that is equal in sound quality to someone who took the time and proper steps of production and you've just prevented them from achieving this because you were only trying to deliver nothing more than a loud beat in hopes somebody would buy it?

What is this thing about a mastered beat? Is the right way of doing things just completely out of style or is there something else going on as to where bad quality is the in thing with Hip hop music?

I have rejected SO MANY hip hop mixes from artists looking to have their music mastered and the reason is because you can hear how they've recorded over a superslammed volume maximized beat that was stripped down to an mp3.

I guess it's ok because Lil Wayne recorded over an mp3 beat that helped his sales reach platinum status. Is that the justification for it?

In my day, well even rarely today, the beatmaker would create the beat, the artist would write to it, have his vocals recorded to the beat, the engineer would mix the pieces together to achieve a good balance and then someone like myself would master it to finalize the process which is the correct way to do it.

Help my old a-s understand what happened and what is going on here in the Hip hop genre because no other genre of music disrupts the process of production like hip hop does.

 

[exelmuzik]

Im ranting and venting here and trying to get a little understanding.
Just trying to figure out why you guys out there make attempts at mastering your beats or instrumental tracks???

What happens when the artist cannot pull off a proper mix because you've given them a section of their song that has been sealed off to any further enhancement or editing or obtaining a good balance between vocals and music?

What happens when the artist wants a song that is equal in sound quality to someone who took the time and proper steps of production and you've just prevented them from achieving this because you were only trying to deliver nothing more than a loud beat in hopes somebody would buy it?

What is this thing about a mastered beat? Is the right way of doing things just completely out of style or is there something else going on as to where bad quality is the in thing with Hip hop music?

I have rejected SO MANY hip hop mixes from artists looking to have their music mastered and the reason is because you can hear how they've recorded over a superslammed volume maximized beat that was stripped down to an mp3.

I guess it's ok because Lil Wayne recorded over an mp3 beat that helped his sales reach platinum status. Is that the justification for it?

In my day, well even rarely today, the beatmaker would create the beat, the artist would write to it, have his vocals recorded to the beat, the engineer would mix the pieces together to achieve a good balance and then someone like myself would master it to finalize the process which is the correct way to do it.

Help my old a-s understand what happened and what is going on here in the Hip hop genre because no other genre of music disrupts the process of production like hip hop does.

i do master my beats but i make sure that the frequencies where the vocals would lay are brought down to have the vocals blend well into the track.

 

[J1TheGod]

Maybe it's the generation gap but see it this way... As a beatmaker (and these days most beatmakers in general) you're making most of your music on a computer, and maybe a keyboard, sound card... but the essentials.. for me and most of the beatmakers I know anyway... I assume (from your name) that you're a mastering engineer and by your age comment that you've been in the business for a bit so it's probably safe to assume that you have an above decent set up as a mastering engineer.... Mastering stuff is an expense, and as a beatmaker with bare essentials, you're not going to send every single 16 bar loop for mastering.. You gotta know your selling that beat first obviously ye. So the ARTIST should be buying the beat, receiving the session file (or an mp3 and then sending the vocals back to the beatmaker, or you might wanna call him a producer maybe now, w/e) and then when everything's done then, think about mastering and such...

BASICALLY, we (me really, and a lotta other b/makers I know) just throw on a couple compressors/limiters and eq's into the master channel, som fades and throw it online, FOR PRESENTATION PURPOSES... Don't worry we're not hating on mastering engineers, just that mastering engineers SHOULD be the last step so whether or not we're "mastering" our own music, it doesn't matter, so long as the final mix down hasn't been attempted to be mastered...
I hope that calms your curiosity...

Lastly, in general I do agree, it's a much better idea to find an (experienced) mastering engineer to take your final mixes and turn that into a releasable product.

 

[themixspace]

I'm a mixing engineer and I receive a lot of hip hop mixes where the beat has already been mastered. Sometimes, I can use a side chain compressor to duck the beat when the vocal plays but there has been numerous times where I've refused to mix a track because the beat is mastering terribly. It even worse when they reach -5db RMS!

I understand the reasons behind mastering your own beats for presentation purposes, but why do so many producers send a mastered beat when they make a sale? Even worse, an mastered MP3!

With today's broadband speeds and fibre optic speeds, why do we need to be working with MP3?

I could imagine that a producer could earn more money from their work if they sold .WAV files only. Firstly, it instantly lets the artist know that you care about the quality of your music and secondly, people like myself and sswmastering will be able to do our job properly.

 

[FCNYJordan]

iMaster With Only An L2 Because iDont Want Clipping On An MP3, Which Most Artists Want If Your Sending Beats. If You Dont Know The Artist That Well On A Business Level You Cant Really Send .WAV's.

 

[Oh4Re△L?!]

I never master any of my joints for the simple fact that it's not part of my expertise. I'm great at creating my beats and mixing them but I never ATTEMPT to dive into the realms of mastering because it takes a whole different knowledge to be great at it. I think it's a competitive thing though, producers hear other producers sh*t hitting and they want to be on par.. which leads to horrible DIY mastering jobs. I'd rather just have a dope mix that can hold it's own. If I sell a joint.. there's not much the artist needs to do mixing wise, even on a two track recording.

 

[RedBeerd]

YOu'll find that a majority of the rappers using .mp3s are doing so because they are not spending money on proper product.

They're making "mixtapes", which is just an imaginary justification for using hot beats, without going through proper licensing channels, although, I can Understand the reasoning...shyte's expensive.

They're also spending hours and hours, sifting through online instrumentals, which are free, and in .mp3 format.

And there's a ton of beginner beatmakers who haven't yet Learned that exporting to .mp3 isn't conducive to great, workable product.

Peace.

 

[J1TheGod]

^^^ Oh ye that's another thing.. We're not always in control of where our beats are or who's using them.. For instance I released my beattape (free on band camp) and I googled it sometime later and I found it uploaded on rapid share and all kinds of shit where the tape wasn't even linked to my band camp or sound cloud... They pirated my free shit basically... I think that's what happens a lot to other cats too...

You're just gonna have to stiffen up (no homo) and prepare to explain to every single artist that they can't bring you an mp3 to master... in the same we have to teach artists that you can't just throw their laptop microphone recorded vocals on our beats and expect us to jump up and down, clapping like Jay-Z is asking to put money in our pockets while they get beats for free.... You should be happy that they're actually paying you lol, we fighting to get paid for our own beats..

---------- Post added at 03:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 AM ----------

I'm a mixing engineer and I receive a lot of hip hop mixes where the beat has already been mastered. Sometimes, I can use a side chain compressor to duck the beat when the vocal plays but there has been numerous times where I've refused to mix a track because the beat is mastering terribly. It even worse when they reach -5db RMS!

I understand the reasons behind mastering your own beats for presentation purposes, but why do so many producers send a mastered beat when they make a sale? Even worse, an mastered MP3!

With today's broadband speeds and fibre optic speeds, why do we need to be working with MP3?

I could imagine that a producer could earn more money from their work if they sold .WAV files only. Firstly, it instantly lets the artist know that you care about the quality of your music and secondly, people like myself and sswmastering will be able to do our job properly.

No that's wrong... The way I see it, internet access is (generally) really only efficient (cost being a big factor to consider too) in first world western nations... I mean, I live in South Africa and I have to think long and hard before I upload beats lol.. especially because I prefer to post .wav files... which is risky still.. And S.A is pretty much supposed to be heading Africa in this respect coz we have most of the continents biggest service providers and they ripping us the **** off... I can only imagine what the rest of the land has to pay for shitty isp's.. So no.. It's not as simple as it may seem...

 

[TAGG Productions]

for me personally its just a want to take my music to the next level, i spend counting hours creating the beat, breaking it down mixing it and from there its either pay to have it worked on or do it yourself even if you cant, i agree with what your saying completely tho it does end up hurting sound quality if not used properly

 

[~X~]

If you need more than a limiter when "mastering" your instrumental for presentation then you're doing it wrong. Have good sound selection and learn to mix better. If you can mix your beats decently then a vocal recorded on top of a mp3 of it won't sound terrible, given the artist has a decent engineer. Just learn to mix better, and everything will be okay.

 

[Xabiton]

Im ranting and venting here and trying to get a little understanding.
Just trying to figure out why you guys out there make attempts at mastering your beats or instrumental tracks???

What happens when the artist cannot pull off a proper mix because you've given them a section of their song that has been sealed off to any further enhancement or editing or obtaining a good balance between vocals and music?

What happens when the artist wants a song that is equal in sound quality to someone who took the time and proper steps of production and you've just prevented them from achieving this because you were only trying to deliver nothing more than a loud beat in hopes somebody would buy it?

What is this thing about a mastered beat? Is the right way of doing things just completely out of style or is there something else going on as to where bad quality is the in thing with Hip hop music?

I have rejected SO MANY hip hop mixes from artists looking to have their music mastered and the reason is because you can hear how they've recorded over a superslammed volume maximized beat that was stripped down to an mp3.

I guess it's ok because Lil Wayne recorded over an mp3 beat that helped his sales reach platinum status. Is that the justification for it?

In my day, well even rarely today, the beatmaker would create the beat, the artist would write to it, have his vocals recorded to the beat, the engineer would mix the pieces together to achieve a good balance and then someone like myself would master it to finalize the process which is the correct way to do it.

Help my old a-s understand what happened and what is going on here in the Hip hop genre because no other genre of music disrupts the process of production like hip hop does.

because people who buy beats want them to sound like they are right off the radio. These guys also reject stems when offered. If they cannot tell that this version of the song from the net is not meant to be recorded over then they deserve to have a bad record.

 

[THA_REAPER]

This isn't a hip hop only thing. I hear the same kind of thing on a rock tracks, electronic tracks, dub tracks etc. Don't really understand why its aimed at hip hop. I will say its more common though. If I could make sense out of it I'd say most people who listen to hip hop like to feel the track as well as hear it. Kick and bass are in most cases are a key element of energy in a hip hop beat. Its what gives you the nod factor. Most people who make beats or listen to hip hop and pay attention to the feel of the beat already know this. Artists also will say to the person who does the beat "I want that kick to knock, I want the ground to shake". Also people like to hear nice low mid fatness and sharpness...snare for example.

For that hip hop is one of the most difficult genres to get right in quality mixes and masters because there's so much dynamics involved. Without good dynamics its a lot harder to grab someones ear. Most people who do make hip hop beats probably remember in the beginning that they wanted some crazy bass or hard kick before they even knew how to do measures and slowly learned or are still at an experimental stage.

That said I believe its the same story with mastering in other genres. They may seem more suitable, because its not a big battle for dynamics. Were in a do it yourself era. Everything is accessible these days why not see if its for you? How does a mixing engineer get into mixing, or how does a mastering engineer get into mastering? Some people should keep their stuff in the closet if they're at the experimental stage and are iffy about the results imo. Just a quick theory...

 

[PatrickPatchCarr]

I think a more professional artist would ask for the unmastered .wav and just about any producer would be happy to supply it. But most artists are not going to go through all the proper steps anyway.

 

[HarleyIsMajik]

as a producer without knowing that we would naturally want out beat to sound as good as it can when played.. it would take someone like you to take this post further so niggas will know that may be why their tracks are being rejected

 

[sswmastering]

as a producer without knowing that we would naturally want out beat to sound as good as it can when played.. it would take someone like you to take this post further so niggas will know that may be why their tracks are being rejected

so I guess I will start here and work my way backwards towards the 1st replies. My reply to you would be make 2 different versions of the beat. 1 for display and the other to be properly mixed along with the artists vocals. As a producer you guys need to insist that the artists you are selling or giving your beats to mix them the right way with their vocals. Remember your name is on the line here and your work is going to be in the spot light just as much as the artist's work. Nobody cares who mixes or later on masters the track the only thing the listener or decision maker cares about is whether it sounds good or not of course not to mention the talent level of both artist and producer. To add on you guys need to stop ruining the music too early in the process, broken record status here demand that the artist mixes the song right or add that fee into your production cost and do it yourself. You will only sell your reputation for a miserable price to earn a quick buck with no thought on the future of your career. This is directed to all not just you.

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

I think a more professional artist would ask for the unmastered .wav and just about any producer would be happy to supply it. But most artists are not going to go through all the proper steps anyway.

Hey like I said don't sell your career for a miserable price, DEMAND that artists take the steps to do it the right way. Its your responsibility as a producer to educate the artists who think taking shortcuts is the way to do it back on my broken record thing, your name is attached to whatever song you helped create the music for and if the artist fails using your music than so do you. Shortcuts will only leave you cut short of success.

---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

This isn't a hip hop only thing. I hear the same kind of thing on a rock tracks, electronic tracks, dub tracks etc. Don't really understand why its aimed at hip hop. I will say its more common though. If I could make sense out of it I'd say most people who listen to hip hop like to feel the track as well as hear it. Kick and bass are in most cases are a key element of energy in a hip hop beat. Its what gives you the nod factor. Most people who make beats or listen to hip hop and pay attention to the feel of the beat already know this. Artists also will say to the person who does the beat "I want that kick to knock, I want the ground to shake". Also people like to hear nice low mid fatness and sharpness...snare for example.

For that hip hop is one of the most difficult genres to get right in quality mixes and masters because there's so much dynamics involved. Without good dynamics its a lot harder to grab someones ear. Most people who do make hip hop beats probably remember in the beginning that they wanted some crazy bass or hard kick before they even knew how to do measures and slowly learned or are still at an experimental stage.

That said I believe its the same story with mastering in other genres. They may seem more suitable, because its not a big battle for dynamics. Were in a do it yourself era. Everything is accessible these days why not see if its for you? How does a mixing engineer get into mixing, or how does a mastering engineer get into mastering? Some people should keep their stuff in the closet if they're at the experimental stage and are iffy about the results imo. Just a quick theory...

1. This was mainly aimed at hip hop because of the producers who continue to contribute to the bad quality by either lack of knowledge about the production process or chasing a quick buck or combination of both. This is not really the case for other genres as you mentioned because the process of creation is totally different.

2. You are very right about the people who listen to it and how they want to hear it but you are only going to get it to sound that way by doing it the right way and not taking shortcuts. You get those kicks to knock and bass to boom during the mixing process after the vocals are recorded and mixed in with the tracks of the instrumental.

3. Actually hip hop is the easiest genre of music to mix. Dynamics are not so much a factor in today's hip hop music verses the stuff from the 90s because of the loudness war. Dynamics are squeezed out the music during the mastering stage and in most cases the mixing stage with the diy methods of today.

4. With other genres of music it's all about dynamic range and giving the music room to move and breathe. Amen to the diy era but its been the poison of the music industry but thats another topic altogether.

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

because people who buy beats want them to sound like they are right off the radio. These guys also reject stems when offered. If they cannot tell that this version of the song from the net is not meant to be recorded over then they deserve to have a bad record.

And this is the problem with this genre, you guys have to educate the artists and let them know that hey there is process to get your music to sound like the guys with the major label deals and you guys need to let them know how to do it. Whether you accept it or not it is your responsibility as a producer to do just that. Like I said before in one of those replies above make 2 copies, 1 for display and attractiveness to the artist's ear and the other to give them so that it can be properly mixed. Trust me if everybody who calls themselves a producer would do this I can pretty much guarantee the genre would change for the better in so many ways.

---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

If you need more than a limiter when "mastering" your instrumental for presentation then you're doing it wrong. Have good sound selection and learn to mix better. If you can mix your beats decently then a vocal recorded on top of a mp3 of it won't sound terrible, given the artist has a decent engineer. Just learn to mix better, and everything will be okay.

Your mixes should never be finalized before the artist has the chance to record their vocals. An mp3 SHOULD ONLY BE USED for recording remotely if the artist is not in your presence or close enough to you for you to mix the song. If that is the case you NEED to demand that your music, your creation be mixed the right way so it carries your name and reputation as a producer as far as it needs to go for that song. If for whatever reason the artist cannot have their music mixed the right way than don't give them an mp3 to record over, give them at the very least a 24bit wav or aiff file with no compression or limiters on the master so they can at least pull off a somewhat decent mix with a chance of it being saved during the mastering stage.

 

[HERESY/KNOKK SHOPE]

ssw, while I agree with your views on shortcuts I believe that you're misinformed when it comes to hip hop/rap and are pointing the finger at the wrong party. If anything, the loss of dynamics should be on the shoulders of record label execs and A&R, mastering engineers who claim their hands are tied, the consumer and artist. Even though your posts are not directed towards me, I feel that I should add my two cents in. None of my statements should be misconstrued as hate/malice, flaming, etc but should be looked at as a step towards making better music.

My reply to you would be make 2 different versions of the beat. 1 for display and the other to be properly mixed along with the artists vocals. As a producer you guys need to insist that the artists you are selling or giving your beats to mix them the right way with their vocals. Remember your name is on the line here and your work is going to be in the spot light just as much as the artist's work.

First, as a composer (not producer) I do provide the paying client with the multitrack files. The problem with your outlook is you're not taking into account that many composers ("producers") are leasing the tracks to clients who would normally not afford the rate the composer is requesting. So if you're an artist, and you're working on a mixtape or album, and you're working with a limited budget, are you going to pay three figures or more for a track or are you going to pay $20?

Nobody cares who mixes or later on masters the track the only thing the listener or decision maker cares about is whether it sounds good or not of course not to mention the talent level of both artist and producer.

And a lot of times it doesn't sound good because the engineer didn't know what they were doing.

To add on you guys need to stop ruining the music too early in the process, broken record status here demand that the artist mixes the song right or add that fee into your production cost and do it yourself. You will only sell your reputation for a miserable price to earn a quick buck with no thought on the future of your career. This is directed to all not just you.

And truth be told it's going to be ruined at the mastering stage if the artist and mastering engineer aren't on the same page so crap is crap regardless of who f*cked it up.

Hey like I said don't sell your career for a miserable price, DEMAND that artists take the steps to do it the right way. Its your responsibility as a producer to educate the artists who think taking shortcuts is the way to do it back on my broken record thing, your name is attached to whatever song you helped create the music for and if the artist fails using your music than so do you. Shortcuts will only leave you cut short of success.

When I sell tracks, the only thing I demand from the artist is on time payment. It is not my responsibility to educate artists. It is my responsibility to provide them with goods and/or services that fill their needs/projects. Will I suggest things to them and offer constructive criticism? Absolutely. Will I show them the error of their ways and why they should do it a different way. Absolutely. However, at the end of the day it is THEIR project that THEY are PAYING FOR, so I have to take a back seat. Yes, I understand my name is attached to the product but I can get a bad rep just because an engineer f*cked up a track I made or because some genius decided to go against what I told them needed to be done.

1. This was mainly aimed at hip hop because of the producers who continue to contribute to the bad quality by either lack of knowledge about the production process or chasing a quick buck or combination of both. This is not really the case for other genres as you mentioned because the process of creation is totally different.

As a person who works with hip hop/rap, r&b, funk, blues and metal (which is my favorite music to make and mix) I can say that the problem is not genre specific/exclusive.

2. You are very right about the people who listen to it and how they want to hear it but you are only going to get it to sound that way by doing it the right way and not taking shortcuts. You get those kicks to knock and bass to boom during the mixing process after the vocals are recorded and mixed in with the tracks of the instrumental.

Refer to previous comments about limited budgets, mixtapes, leases, etc.

3. Actually hip hop is the easiest genre of music to mix. Dynamics are not so much a factor in today's hip hop music verses the stuff from the 90s because of the loudness war. Dynamics are squeezed out the music during the mastering stage and in most cases the mixing stage with the diy methods of today.

I wouldn't say that hip hop is the easiest genre to mix because not all of hip hop contains the same type of arrangement, instrumentation, sound palette, etc. West Coast hip hop/rap that is funk based is different from East Coast hip hop that may be sample based and a bit more dirty. Southern rap tends to be mixed differently and the list goes on and on. Rap and hip hop is more than an 808, a cracking snare and lyrics and to imply that hip hop is the easiest genre to mix, while your opinion, isn't productive at all.

4. With other genres of music it's all about dynamic range and giving the music room to move and breathe.

Dynamic range, movement and breathing are not genre specific. Have you listened to Carrie Underwood’s Cowboy Casanova? That isn't rap. Have you listened to Euge Groove's Get Em Goin? That isn't rap. So no, I wouldn't say with other music it is all about dynamic range. Preserving dynamics depends on the artist, engineers (all of them), the labels and consumer awareness.

And this is the problem with this genre, you guys have to educate the artists and let them know that hey there is process to get your music to sound like the guys with the major label deals and you guys need to let them know how to do it.

When will mastering engineers stop contributing to the problem? The problem is not genre specific.

Whether you accept it or not it is your responsibility as a producer to do just that. Like I said before in one of those replies above make 2 copies, 1 for display and attractiveness to the artist's ear and the other to give them so that it can be properly mixed. Trust me if everybody who calls themselves a producer would do this I can pretty much guarantee the genre would change for the better in so many ways.

I've addressed this. Also, I'd also like to add that if everyone who called themselves a mastering engineer would stop pinning shit to the red, ALL of music would change for the better in so many ways.

Your mixes should never be finalized before the artist has the chance to record their vocals. An mp3 SHOULD ONLY BE USED for recording remotely if the artist is not in your presence or close enough to you for you to mix the song. If that is the case you NEED to demand that your music, your creation be mixed the right way so it carries your name and reputation as a producer as far as it needs to go for that song.

I've done this. I've even said, "If you purchase the track I'll mix the song for you after you've recorded your vocals" and have even put provisions in that said I had to be there when it was mixed. The problem, again, is if the artist has a vision and they or their engineer don't know what they are doing, you're f*cked.

If for whatever reason the artist cannot have their music mixed the right way than don't give them an mp3 to record over, give them at the very least a 24bit wav or aiff file with no compression or limiters on the master so they can at least pull off a somewhat decent mix with a chance of it being saved during the mastering stage.

The “chance” of it being saved in the mastering stage? What if the mastering engineer fumbles and makes it worse due to wanting to make it loud or the artist DEMANDING that it be made loud?

In closing, again, I agree with your premise of not taking shortcuts. However, I disagree with who you blame for the problems. Unless I am producing in the sense that I'm directing the direction of the song (arrangement, root note, concept, how the mix will be done, what mics to use, what vocalists to use, etc), it isn't my job to step on the artists vision. I can tell them what needs to be done, and what should be done, but it is on them to listen or not listen.

 

[sswmastering]

"The problem with your outlook is you're not taking into account that many composers ("producers") are leasing the tracks to clients who would normally not afford the rate the composer is requesting. So if you're an artist, and you're working on a mixtape or album, and you're working with a limited budget, are you going to pay three figures or more for a track or are you going to pay $20?"
Well I do take all aspects into account and that leasing business when it comes to beats is a huge part of the problem and in my veryx5 strong personal opinion needs to be stopped. You would have to had been in the business as long as I have to understand that it has seriously led to the oversaturation depreciation of music in this genre. Seriously where and what is the value of a $20 or $50 lease??? Who is that really benefiting?

"And a lot of times it doesn't sound good because the engineer didn't know what they were doing."
Well that is another problem all in itself, you get what you pay for and there are a lot of people who just carry the title with no real experience. Communication is important and if you cannot get your ideas across to the engineer so that he or she understands your vision well it doesnt take a rocket scientist to tell you what you to do next.
Aiming at your comment about budgets, in this day and age budgets are pretty much irrelevant, remember the playing field has been leveled and ANYBODY with a half decent home studio setup can release quality that matches with anything released commercially if the right steps are taken to do so. To rush is to ruin and not many new to the game artists are taking their time. Compose>Record>Edit>Mix it> get it Mastered there is no other way to good quality sorry.

"When will mastering engineers stop contributing to the problem? The problem is not genre specific." You took that out of context, speaking on my comment about the problems with the hip hop genre. I replied to to a reply and remember hip hop is what we are talking about here and happens to be the topic at hand. The problems with the genre of hip hop are clear and very easy to recognize and its pretty hard to make comparisons to other genres and their problems with production quality. Sure other genres have their issues in the indie realm but nothing like what I am addressing here because it's not possible unless people in other genres all start purposely tracking their music and doing things out of the proper order such as introducing mastering processes before the song gets mixed ie. limiters placed on the music for loudness sake or converting parts of their songs into mp3s and then mixing the songs and then going back and attempting to master the songs or combine the processes simultaneously which of course is a-s backwards.

"I've addressed this. Also, I'd also like to add that if everyone who called themselves a mastering engineer would stop pinning shit to the red, ALL of music would change for the better in so many ways."

Well this problem really only exists with "popular music" ie. hip hop, pop, rock, all genres of electronic music. We only do what we are requested to do and is part of the territory. I don't like it but it pays the bills. I'll say this though, slamming a mix with loudness during the mastering process sure sounds a lot better than dealing with a mix that has an mp3 that was slammed before the mixing stage and then going back and attempting to master.......push the reject button on that and give it 10 feet.

I'll leave it with this and this my firm belief on the situation. If the beatmakers would put a little more care into their work by looking ahead and not giving artists super limited beats or mp3 versions of beats the quality of the music overall would seriously improve. Of course you cannot guarantee that you will have an experienced engineer mixing the songs but by giving them more of a cushion and room to work with you give them that much more of a chance of getting a good sounding piece of music out into the world. The point of this topic in a nutshell was just to express that the majority of beatmakers especially on the web wreck any chance of a good sounding song before the song even has a chance because people keep sealing off those beats with a LIMITER............Once a limit has been reached how much further can you go? Why slam a door on an opportunity to advance for such a miserable price? The way the music is being done by the majority of the hip hop artists and producers/beatmakers on the internet is dead wrong. It is rare that I personally come across a hip hop artist on the web who has a piece of music that sounds the way someone who took the time to do it right. Now with other genres of music the majority of what I hear is done for the most part at the very worst of it sounds decent and is even more of a hard find to come across something in another genre that has been ruined early into the production process.

fyi hip hop just happens to be one of my favorite genres of music, my 1st job was with a hip hop label back in 1994. Believe me my rant comes with love says the old man.
"The internet has driven hip hop off of the lot and the value has depreciated tremendously"

 

[mark1234]

But do songs that are mixed very well need to be mastered at all?

 

[J1TheGod]

^^^^Yes. Mastering isn't just about the final effects chain.

 

[Xabiton]

And this is the problem with this genre, you guys have to educate the artists and let them know that hey there is process to get your music to sound like the guys with the major label deals and you guys need to let them know how to do it. Whether you accept it or not it is your responsibility as a producer to do just that. Like I said before in one of those replies above make 2 copies, 1 for display and attractiveness to the artist's ear and the other to give them so that it can be properly mixed. Trust me if everybody who calls themselves a producer would do this I can pretty much guarantee the genre would change for the better in so many ways.

In an ideal world that would work now in the real world where these guys only want your beats it does not always. I admire your intentions and you are very correct in how things should happen but should and will/do are two very different things. Besides there is much more wrong with hip hop than badly mastered beats.

---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 PM ----------

^^^^Yes. Mastering isn't just about the final effects chain.

I was watching a video a couple weeks ago apparently Ken Lewis mixed that 50 cent song down on me and did not have it mastered. i hear stories of this from time to time. Its like eq just because its there does not mean u have to use it.