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Dark Blue
New member
I Want to know what keys, trigger which emotions. Like "A", and "G" , are kind of sad keys. Please I would like someone to elaborate on this. Or point me to a site that explains this instead of debates it.
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djstasiak
New member
I'd say it is impossible for a specific key to elicit emotion. In general if the key is, say A or G minor, it is more sad or sinister sounding. Major is usually said to be happier.
Fumbling on Ecstasy
New member
What key you use makes no difference in the mood. you can make the key of C sound evil or happy. It's learning how to use the modes of the scale that you want to focus on. For instance, in the key of C, the chords C,F, and G are major. If you play those chords, you'll have a happy sounding song. Also in the key of C, the chords D,E, and A are minor. If you play those chords, your song will sound sad. The same goes for all the other keys, since it's really just a transposition of any other scale.
THM
New member
I couldn't say it better; it all depends from the "minor/major" thing.
more about chords/keys:
http://64.33.34.112/MFILE/vpc.html
http://tyala.freeyellow.com/t4scales.htm
more about chords/keys:
http://64.33.34.112/MFILE/vpc.html
http://tyala.freeyellow.com/t4scales.htm
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Dark Blue
New member
Well as far as having and Idea for a song. Like if I were going to make a happy song, would it be "ideal" (albeirt not necessary) to pick a certain key, and build of of that. I have had kind of this theory for a while. Then I found out others have discovered this as well, so I figure it must be at least one person with the school of thought "If I wan't this kind of song, I start with this key." and maybe there is some form of 'scientific' way to to build off of it. Once I discovered these things, music got even more interesting then it was at inception. I am just speculating here, but maybe there is more to making a good melody then we originally perceived.
Another thing is that as I am learning to play the piano, I try to play out other songs I have heard. Most of the songs that feel a certain way to me start in the same key almost every time. There are a few exceptions, but most follow these guidelines.
Another thing is that as I am learning to play the piano, I try to play out other songs I have heard. Most of the songs that feel a certain way to me start in the same key almost every time. There are a few exceptions, but most follow these guidelines.
Fumbling on Ecstasy
New member
What key you use is irrelevent. You want to focus on modes. There are 7 modes
I Ionian
II Dorian
III Phrygian
IV Lydian
V MixoLydian
VI Aolean/Minor
VII Locrian
These are what set moods. You can use these modes in any key since it's intervals that you want to preserve.
Take the key of C for example. The notes in that key are C,D,E,F,G,A,B
The chords you can work with in the key of C are
C major
D minor
E minor
F major
G major
A minor
B diminished
In scales, the 1st,4th,5th chords are major. The 2nd, 3rd,6th are minor, and the seventh is diminished.
To write something sad sounding you would use the minor mode. So you would center your bassline around "A" since it is the 6th note in the key of C, and the 6th mode is minor. Then I would play around with the chords D and E since they are minor in the key of C, but you don't have to restrict yourself to minor chords. having the bassline centered around A will give a minor contrast when played against most of the chords in the key of C.
Now if i wanted to do this in the key of "A", the notes in that scale are A,B,C#,D,E,F#,G#.
so in this instance, the chords I have to work with are
A major
B minor
C# minor
D major
E major
F# minor
G# diminished
I would center my bassline around "F#" and use the chords F#minor and C#minor. It will sound exactly the same as the example in the key of "C" since we are doing exactly the same thing. The only difference is it will just be transposed 2 full tones in pitch.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
Drew
I Ionian
II Dorian
III Phrygian
IV Lydian
V MixoLydian
VI Aolean/Minor
VII Locrian
These are what set moods. You can use these modes in any key since it's intervals that you want to preserve.
Take the key of C for example. The notes in that key are C,D,E,F,G,A,B
The chords you can work with in the key of C are
C major
D minor
E minor
F major
G major
A minor
B diminished
In scales, the 1st,4th,5th chords are major. The 2nd, 3rd,6th are minor, and the seventh is diminished.
To write something sad sounding you would use the minor mode. So you would center your bassline around "A" since it is the 6th note in the key of C, and the 6th mode is minor. Then I would play around with the chords D and E since they are minor in the key of C, but you don't have to restrict yourself to minor chords. having the bassline centered around A will give a minor contrast when played against most of the chords in the key of C.
Now if i wanted to do this in the key of "A", the notes in that scale are A,B,C#,D,E,F#,G#.
so in this instance, the chords I have to work with are
A major
B minor
C# minor
D major
E major
F# minor
G# diminished
I would center my bassline around "F#" and use the chords F#minor and C#minor. It will sound exactly the same as the example in the key of "C" since we are doing exactly the same thing. The only difference is it will just be transposed 2 full tones in pitch.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
Drew
Fumbling on Ecstasy
New member
Dark Blue said:
It's called Music Theory. It has been around for thousands of years. I had a piano teacher who broke down every emotion into a mode. Learning piano will help you with your theory and composition emencely. When you play piano, its really easy to start seeing relationship between chords and notes. you'll eventually pick it up.
As far as all songs that feel the same way starting in the same key, it's because 9 out of 10 songs are either written in the key of G or C.
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dvyce
New member
Actually, it has been scientifically proven that "B" is the "happiest" musical note. Also, I learned in one of my college music theory classes that Eb minor is the "saddest" key, the second saddest is the key of A.
The Happiest key is F (which is surprising since the happiest note is B.)
I read all this stuff in a book last year and it really makes sense if you think about it.
No, I'm just kidding... I totally agree with you Fumbling. I have had this arguement a thousand times with people. I have gone so far as to go and transpose peoples keyboards while they were away and when they come back and don't know they are playing up a half step off, I can say "you see, it is the relation of the notes to eachother, not the key."
I think this whole thing about there being a "saddest key" all came from a joke in "Spinal Tap" where Christopher Guest said something about something being the saddest note or the saddest key. I think people heard that and thought it was true, not getting that it was a joke.
People play songs in different keys for different keys for singers all the time to accomodate their different vocal ranges.
The Happiest key is F (which is surprising since the happiest note is B.)
I read all this stuff in a book last year and it really makes sense if you think about it.
No, I'm just kidding... I totally agree with you Fumbling. I have had this arguement a thousand times with people. I have gone so far as to go and transpose peoples keyboards while they were away and when they come back and don't know they are playing up a half step off, I can say "you see, it is the relation of the notes to eachother, not the key."
I think this whole thing about there being a "saddest key" all came from a joke in "Spinal Tap" where Christopher Guest said something about something being the saddest note or the saddest key. I think people heard that and thought it was true, not getting that it was a joke.
People play songs in different keys for different keys for singers all the time to accomodate their different vocal ranges.
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Guy Incognito
New member
Something that has a huge impact is the sound you're using.
Every type of sound has a certain timbral quality that can be broken down into harmonics. So you already end up having a subset of relative tones, even if you only hit one note.
This often defines how a sound can or can't be used and what kind of intervals work for it.
Every type of sound has a certain timbral quality that can be broken down into harmonics. So you already end up having a subset of relative tones, even if you only hit one note.
This often defines how a sound can or can't be used and what kind of intervals work for it.
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ske[t]ch
ALT-F4 To Remove Vocals
q
but concerning this thread//
lately all this stuff is really influencing me.. making me want to take piano..
FOE.. u think its really worth it for any person making music?
!!!!
but concerning this thread//
lately all this stuff is really influencing me.. making me want to take piano..
FOE.. u think its really worth it for any person making music?
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dvyce
New member
Re: q
by the way, I do this with friends of mine when having this discussion... I don't go and mess with people's keyboards who I am not friends with... It is of course all done in fun.
The scenario actually usually is where I make bets with them that they will not be able to tell if I transpose their keyboards....like "maybe I'll transpose it up, maybe down, maybe not at all- - you tell me tomorrow what I did (if anything) and we'll see if you can tell"
ske[t]ch said:
by the way, I do this with friends of mine when having this discussion... I don't go and mess with people's keyboards who I am not friends with... It is of course all done in fun.
The scenario actually usually is where I make bets with them that they will not be able to tell if I transpose their keyboards....like "maybe I'll transpose it up, maybe down, maybe not at all- - you tell me tomorrow what I did (if anything) and we'll see if you can tell"
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Dark Blue
New member
Every little bit helps. At least give it a try. My cousin is currently teaching me, so I'm still learning as well. What have you got to lose?
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M J McCabe
New member
It's all relative.
I feel that the "Happy" or "Sad" quality of a song is not completely dependent on which note or chord is bieng played. those feelings are generated through the tonal relationships between chords, and the timing/syncopation used in a piece. Yes, modes are great things to start to understand tonal relationship, however I find that the many most compelling works don't stick to just one given mode. Even throughout classical music literature you will find many of the greats using borrowed chords from different modes, all within in a single opus.
Orchestration ad arranging also plays a large part in feeding to make one feel a desired emotion while listening. For instance, a C Major chord will have a different effect when played on a set of orchestra bells in a high octave, then when played by a pipe organ in it's lowest register.
Besides these, there are many more points that can be made to what makes music "Happy" of "Sad". I think that one must also realise that the things that trigger a person to emote are different and vary from one to another. What makes an individual tick is completely subjective. With that being said, if you are conciously trying to manipulate the music you can only really generalize and try to survey and target one group of listeners who have common emotional/tonal/rythmic triggers.
Ayway, it's all just food for thought. Personally, when I write, I like to let the music have a life of it's own, and flow whichever way is besst for the piece itself.
Good luck with the writing, all.
Peace.
I feel that the "Happy" or "Sad" quality of a song is not completely dependent on which note or chord is bieng played. those feelings are generated through the tonal relationships between chords, and the timing/syncopation used in a piece. Yes, modes are great things to start to understand tonal relationship, however I find that the many most compelling works don't stick to just one given mode. Even throughout classical music literature you will find many of the greats using borrowed chords from different modes, all within in a single opus.
Orchestration ad arranging also plays a large part in feeding to make one feel a desired emotion while listening. For instance, a C Major chord will have a different effect when played on a set of orchestra bells in a high octave, then when played by a pipe organ in it's lowest register.
Besides these, there are many more points that can be made to what makes music "Happy" of "Sad". I think that one must also realise that the things that trigger a person to emote are different and vary from one to another. What makes an individual tick is completely subjective. With that being said, if you are conciously trying to manipulate the music you can only really generalize and try to survey and target one group of listeners who have common emotional/tonal/rythmic triggers.
Ayway, it's all just food for thought. Personally, when I write, I like to let the music have a life of it's own, and flow whichever way is besst for the piece itself.
Good luck with the writing, all.
Peace.
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M3ntal
New member
The different keys do relate to emotions imo, although i think you have to be quite finely tuned to hear it, and it's more like a "mood" than an emotion as it is more of a guage. It seems to me that C major is neutral, and for every sharp added to the key signature it seems to lighten up the feel of it a bit (so G is a bit lighter than C, and D is a bit brighter than G, etc) and similarly, for every flat in the signature the feeling dulls a bit. I'd decribe it as getting happier and sadder, but that seems too extreme and slightly misleading, it's a bit different to that. It's also only noticable in changes from one key to the next, ie the music has to go from, say, C major to G major for G major to sound brighter, and it is extremely prone to ear fatigue. I only notice it the first few times i hear it until i've had a good rest.
I think it's due to the way concert pitch is tuned, or not tuned more precisely. It is a generic tuning that caters for all modes of all key signatures, and isn't actually in tune. To be absolutely in tune, you have to tune the instrument to precisely the key you are playing in (it's called tempered tuning for those who didn't already know this
) and if you do this for all keys in turn and compare them, they all sound equal (there's an option to do this on the Korg M1, although it exaggerates and just sounds out of tune. i'm not sure about other synth models, but it's best tried properly on a harpsichord - they have real tempered tuning). I think that it is this generic concert pitch tuning that causes the slight change in "mood" as you add flats and sharps to the key, the further away from C major you get the more the mood of the key gets affected, because the nearer or further to/from the keys true tuning you get. It is more noticable when playing full chords in the higher octave ranges.
Don't expect to go and try this now and be able to hear what i mean, i have near perfect pitch and i think it is this sensitivity to pitch that enables me to distinguish it, although i could be wrong, it's just that i've noticed slightly out of tune parts in professional tunes before that no one else seems to have a problem with. As such, if you did write your tunes to take advantage of the different moods of the keys, most people would probably not be able to tell the difference anyway.
Anyway, i hope i've helped, but it's hard to explain things that you just can't really put into words easily.
I think it's due to the way concert pitch is tuned, or not tuned more precisely. It is a generic tuning that caters for all modes of all key signatures, and isn't actually in tune. To be absolutely in tune, you have to tune the instrument to precisely the key you are playing in (it's called tempered tuning for those who didn't already know this
) and if you do this for all keys in turn and compare them, they all sound equal (there's an option to do this on the Korg M1, although it exaggerates and just sounds out of tune. i'm not sure about other synth models, but it's best tried properly on a harpsichord - they have real tempered tuning). I think that it is this generic concert pitch tuning that causes the slight change in "mood" as you add flats and sharps to the key, the further away from C major you get the more the mood of the key gets affected, because the nearer or further to/from the keys true tuning you get. It is more noticable when playing full chords in the higher octave ranges.Don't expect to go and try this now and be able to hear what i mean, i have near perfect pitch and i think it is this sensitivity to pitch that enables me to distinguish it, although i could be wrong, it's just that i've noticed slightly out of tune parts in professional tunes before that no one else seems to have a problem with. As such, if you did write your tunes to take advantage of the different moods of the keys, most people would probably not be able to tell the difference anyway.
Anyway, i hope i've helped, but it's hard to explain things that you just can't really put into words easily.
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adambeddow
Guest
If any of you are writing for war or battle films, a great sequence is Dm, Bb, C, and G. Mess around with inverstions and voicings and you get a great reflective mood.
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TECHNINE
New member
D minor **IS** the saddest of all keys. I don't know why but it makes people weep instantly when they hear it.
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adambeddow
Guest
V.true - I'm playing it now and im filling up 
I just remembered.......C#minor is another good military key. Its just awkward to play in (5 sharps i think)
I just remembered.......C#minor is another good military key. Its just awkward to play in (5 sharps i think)
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DannyGantastic
Guest
Technine: Take a piece in D minor, and use a waveform editor to pitch-shift it up by a factor of 1.0595.
Did it have the same effect? It did? Gee, that's funny, because the piece you just listened to is in Eb minor.
Though it is possible that people's reaction to the music will be a result of their having been exposed to certain other pieces in the same key.
Did it have the same effect? It did? Gee, that's funny, because the piece you just listened to is in Eb minor.
Though it is possible that people's reaction to the music will be a result of their having been exposed to certain other pieces in the same key.
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dj funkifize
Guest
DannyGantastic said:
In my experience/oppinion/observations this is the only reason certain keys cause certain emotions and why leading tones and cadences sound right. If you never heard a perfect authentic cadence (V-I) before in your entire life, you wouldn't expect the I chord to follow the V, you wouldn't know what to expect, it could be anything. And if you've never heard any music before, you wouldn't have any preset notions of what is sad and what is happy.... or would you?
I would love to see what someone who has never listened to any music in their entire life has to say about music and what they think sounds good and what they would compose. Of course, there is no fair way to get someone like that.
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M J McCabe
New member
Leading Tones & PAC
Concerning leading tones and PAC... that really doesn't have anyting to do with a key and emotion specifically. Because of the overtone series, the leading tones tend to "Lead" your ear to the resolution note which in the case of a (V-I) cadence will be the root of the (I) chord. Because of this, an untrained ear will naturally gravitate toward the (I), and (V-I) will be the strongest harmonic resolution, follwed by the deceptive cadence... this is speaking in diatonic terms.
The cadence sounds correct in any given key because of this use of leading tones. That is how good composers change keys almost seemlessly. They devlop a transition to over time, crossing tonalities, and borrowing chords, eventually leading to a (ii-V-I) transition or turn around. There are more forms of cadence to transition, but we don't want to get to far off topic here.
"Leading Tone" and "Cadence" are terms of harmonic function, not emotion.
Concerning leading tones and PAC... that really doesn't have anyting to do with a key and emotion specifically. Because of the overtone series, the leading tones tend to "Lead" your ear to the resolution note which in the case of a (V-I) cadence will be the root of the (I) chord. Because of this, an untrained ear will naturally gravitate toward the (I), and (V-I) will be the strongest harmonic resolution, follwed by the deceptive cadence... this is speaking in diatonic terms.
The cadence sounds correct in any given key because of this use of leading tones. That is how good composers change keys almost seemlessly. They devlop a transition to over time, crossing tonalities, and borrowing chords, eventually leading to a (ii-V-I) transition or turn around. There are more forms of cadence to transition, but we don't want to get to far off topic here.
"Leading Tone" and "Cadence" are terms of harmonic function, not emotion.