So how do you keep kicks from drowning out the mix?

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adam23

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I've tried compression and limiting but that doesn't seem to work. i want the kicks to be audible but i can't seem to get that to happen without having it drown out the instruments when it hits. I want it to sit nice in the mix. So how do I do this? I've been struggling with this since I started.
 
For me it's a combination if EQing and sidechain compression to single the kick out from the rest of the mix and prevent it clashing.

Use a spectrum analyser on the master channel and solo the kick to see which frequencies your kick is peaking at, then use the same process to see if your other instruments are trying to occupy the same range. You may need to change the pitch of your kick or EQ out that range on some of your other instruments.

Depends on the type of music you're writing, but with most types of EDM you can just use sidechain compression on your other elements so they duck out when the kick comes in, which gives a nice pumping feel to the track. The benefit to this is that the sidechained instruments can occupy the same frequency range without clashing too much.
 
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sidechain is a great way to get the kick in there without increasing the kicks output. But it's a delicate process in a way, you can quote easily disturb the rhythm of your track with it. Use it lightly unless you are going for that seriously ducked sound.

I'll have a go at it when I get back home to see if I can help out.

I don't really see anything wrong with this kick.. If you think it pops out too much then you could cut some high frequencies or simply try another kick sound!
 
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Your kick has a rather long tail or is it the bass?
I don´t think the kick itself is the problem here, it sounds rather good for the genre.

Sounds like bass and kick are playing on top of each other and thats a sure way to mud it up/lose headroom if you haven't EQed or selected the right sounds properly.
A little out in the song where the kick goes away, I put up a meter and looked at your bass. It peaks/has it´s major frequency at 50hz (!). I can also see that your kick peaks hard around 50-60 hz. When that hits together with that kick without controlling it you are bound to get problems/lose distinction.

It also sounds like the rest of your mix ain´t "sharpened". It sound dull like in you haven't really payed attention to the frequencies, pans, EQ and mono/stereo in any of instrument for real.
The pans on the stereo instruments sounds like a stereo patch from some synth am I right? When you got 2 elements like that, try to go mono and pan them to one side each. Keep them pretty dry but send and effect (wet only) to the different side.
Compress, pan, eq and clean up the picture. Make instruments shine where they are good at it and use subtractive EQ to remove unnecessary frequencies. Pan and use reverb.

Just some suggestions.

Best of luck.
 
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Try different kicks, as all kicks have different tail lengths/shapes. Also, try tuning the kick so it hits a note in the same key as the bass, if that makes sense. This gets rid of phasing and annoying muddy sounds between the kick and the bass. For the most part, the right kick sound and a mild sidechaining effect should help alot.
Finally, I'd say try adding an extra sharper, shorter "high" kick to the main sub kick. This gives the kick sound a bit of a boost among all the low frequencies between the bass and kick in the song.
 
its an 808 sample over a kick. And yeah I listened to the kick paired up with all the other instruments ans it doesn't seem to clash. It only clashes with the bass (808). I tried lower the frequency on the kick where the 808 hits more, and vice versa. But it still didn't really help much. I read that using a peak controller can help but I'm not sure how to go about it. And I'm still trying to touch up on my mixing with the other instruments, I've just been really focusing on the percussion.
 
Heyclown said:
Your kick has a rather long tail or is it the bass?
I don´t think the kick itself is the problem here, it sounds rather good for the genre.

Sounds like bass and kick are playing on top of each other and thats a sure way to mud it up/lose headroom if you haven't EQed or selected the right sounds properly.
A little out in the song where the kick goes away, I put up a meter and looked at your bass. It peaks/has it´s major frequency at 50hz (!). I can also see that your kick peaks hard around 50-60 hz. When that hits together with that kick without controlling it you are bound to get problems/lose distinction.

It also sounds like the rest of your mix ain´t "sharpened". It sound dull like in you haven't really payed attention to the frequencies, pans, EQ and mono/stereo in any of instrument for real.
The pans on the stereo instruments sounds like a stereo patch from some synth am I right? When you got 2 elements like that, try to go mono and pan them to one side each. Keep them pretty dry but send and effect (wet only) to the different side.
Compress, pan, eq and clean up the picture. Make instruments shine where they are good at it and use subtractive EQ to remove unnecessary frequencies. Pan and use reverb.

Just some suggestions.

Best of luck.
Click to expand...

its an 808 sample over a kick. And yeah I listened to the kick paired up with all the other instruments ans it doesn't seem to clash. It only clashes with the bass (808). I tried lower the frequency on the kick where the 808 hits more, and vice versa. But it still didn't really help much. I read that using a peak controller can help but I'm not sure how to go about it. And I'm still trying to touch up on my mixing with the other instruments, I've just been really focusing on the percussion.
 
adam23 said:
I tried lower the frequency on the kick where the 808 hits more, and vice versa. But it still didn't really help much.
Click to expand...
Try the opposite - reducing the bass around 45-65 hz? At least through the duration of the kick, which is really short.
 
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I'd say your best bet is to sidechain, just enough for the bass to duck away when the kick hit the hardest, a fast attack and short release. Play around with ratio and threshold until you can't really hear the effect but you should still hear the difference on the initial hit of the kick. The only way I have ever had a kick and bass playing at the same time is when used with sidechain. Another option is ad mentioned above, do a manual sidechain eg volume Automation. You can zoom in real close on the kick sample and adjust the Automation so it's really quick and not longer than it has to. You should then be able to copy the Automation and paste it on the bass. This can sometimes be more desired than using sidechain because it can be easier to get a nice and even effect that's more in line with your tracks rhythm.
 
Heyclown said:
Try the opposite - reducing the bass around 45-65 hz? At least through the duration of the kick, which is really short.
Click to expand...

I tried it but the kick still drowns out the rest of the track (my mistake from my last reply, it still drowns out the rest of the track). How do you sidechain? Is there a good video you recommend? I just really want to know how producers get their kicks to hit and be audible without overpowering everything else. Like whats the secret? Is there a video specifically addressing this somewhere? Ive looked but im really not sure what I'm looking for.
 
The secret which isn't much of a secret is sidechain compression a lot of the times.. That and some proper EQing, compressing (other than sidechain) and layering of different kicks for punch and bass, and what ever other effects you can put on it.

Just google "How to sidechain in (insert DAW name here)" or on youtube.
 
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The very easiest way nowadays (if you cannot or won´t figure out how it is done with a compressor) is a signature plug-in named kickstart from Nicky Romero (15 USD).
But you are better off doing it with a compressor. And the latter is totally cost free.
 
I can vouch for that plugin, it is actually quite useful and it's more fun than to simply choose a made sample. Lots of layering possibilities using Kickstart.
 
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adam23 said:
And I'm still trying to touch up on my mixing with the other instruments, I've just been really focusing on the percussion.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should just move on to the other instruments and get them sounding better and build them around your drums. The kick+808 sounds fine to me, if anything just turn the fader down until its out of the way. Seems like your just having level issues. May seem simple, but levels are major in mixing.

What are you listening on? Monitors, headphones, computer speakers?
 
The MH said:
Maybe you should just move on to the other instruments and get them sounding better and build them around your drums. The kick+808 sounds fine to me, if anything just turn the fader down until its out of the way. Seems like your just having level issues. May seem simple, but levels are major in mixing.

What are you listening on? Monitors, headphones, computer speakers?
Click to expand...

I use some dre studio beats and some small Bose computer speakers. What ive been talking about is what i hear from the speakers.
 
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It all depends on the levels of your other tracks. All your levels should be lowered initially, but when youre tweaking your kick to not drown out the rest of your sounds, (and this has been mentioned above already).. use just a bit of sidechain compression and really get a good EQ on the kick WITH ALL YOUR OTHER TRACK LEVELS LOWERED. When you find that your kick is now drowning out the rest of the mix just lower the kicks volume level and it should be good.
 
I would sidechain the kick to a ghost track of the kick bounced out, then you can control exactly how much mix space it takes up.
 
Depends on the kick sample u r using. If ur using a kick that hits all the way up in the HF's then try rolling off some of the HF's. That should open up space for other instruments. Or wherever other instruments r playin in the frequency spectrum, cut the kick in that area.
 
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