Why are artists like Kanye West credited as "Musical Geniuses"

[Rekordhead]

I think you're taking my words out of context. As stated in the OP, if you're FLIPPING a sample, and turning it into something surprisingly new. Then yes. Sampling IS an art.

But if you're looping your favorite part of an old song, and running it through a drum machine to make it "hip-hopable" then I have bad news for you..You're doing it wrong.

An empty insult won't do anything here. You'll do anything to avoid the obvious answer to my question. A while ago Kanye West "designed" a plain white T-Shirt, and sold them for over $100 each, and actually sold all of them out. Now is that because his plain white shirt is an incredible design? Or is it because of the cult like personality he has, and his cult like fan base?

This is nothing new though, many so called "greats" are half as great as people say they are (Cough, Cough, Drake, Kendrick). Keep on stanning if you want though. lol.

by your logic then whats the difference between looping and chopping if you're still taking someone elses work? why is one ok and not the other? and who decides how much you have to chop it before its Ok, you? so coming up with stuff from scratch is better, but what if someone else used the same chord progression before? is it still ok? theres nothing new under the sun.

 

[98bullz]

by your logic then whats the difference between looping and chopping if you're still taking someone elses work? why is one ok and not the other? and who decides how much you have to chop it before its Ok, you? so coming up with stuff from scratch is better, but what if someone else used the same chord progression before? is it still ok? theres nothing new under the sun.

Looping is simple. Step one, crate dig. Step two, find cute part you want to steal.. er I mean "loop", Step three, speed it up, slow it down, leave it as is. Step four, add drums, pat yourself on the back, and pretend like you made a master peice even though you haven't

Chopping a beat, is taking peices of it, and slicing it up, you can change the order, you can only take one word/phrase like "Flashing..Lights" and manipulate it howver you like.

I can't tell you "who decides how much you have to chop it before it's OK" that's subjective. But I can tell you that if you've sampled music before, or spend quite a bit of time dissecting samples then it's pretty obvious to tell when a lazy artist like Kanye doesn't do their fair share of work, considering the amount of money, fame, hype, and "respect" he's getting for his work.

"but what if someone else used the same chord progression before? is it still ok? theres nothing new under the sun."

This started off as a friendly discussion, now I question your logic and reason, not whether or not you play an instrument. You come off like an idiot. Implying every song is just a remix because there are only so many sounds the human ear can hear. As I stated before, I can only see so many colors, that's not an excuse for me to not be original. Sorry, but taking other peoples work and editing it is remixing, NOT creating something "new". If it was really "new" it wouldn't be sampling, there would be no one to credit or pay for the sample.

 

[KonKossKang]

Now there's a few things I disagree with.Learning how to read sheets takes less time than learning how to properly sample hard samples.
Playing an instrument reliably is difficult however.No producer, at least the ones I have been exposed to did everything by themself unless they were a hobbyist.
Sometimes companies square enix need an entire orchestra because they can't do none of that while developing final fantasy 15 or kingdom hearts 3 etc.
Producers aren't even beatmakers most of the time they are literally either telling other people what to do or managing musicians and collabing.

Let's be real 98, everyone who chooses a vst over sampling is lazy to some degree.Kontakt and other plugins have made most uses of sampling, not necessary.
In fact, simple synths kill the need to sample 80's songs.And dear god, think of how many real drums that can be replaced by kong or kontakt and a simple padkontroller.
I wasn't there, none of these guys were there when the developers made all of these libraries for their synths.I have never built a grand piano.
I have never built any instrument, yet at least.

Playing piano pieces and sampling are completely different mediums, but each can be the same level of difficulty depending on how hard you make it for yourself.

 

[98bullz]

Learning how to read sheets takes less time than learning how to properly sample hard samples.

.. I was tempted to stop reading after I read that. It took everything I had in me to continue.

I think you're glamorizing the "art" of sampling too much now. Samples like music composition are a-like in the sense that it's only as hard as your creativity makes it. Hence the reason why artist use narcotics when making music, so make them more "creative".

I'm sorry, but learning sheet music isn't as easy as sampling, it just isn't.. And if it were.. Then riddle me this. Why do we have SOOO many young producers who can sample, but can't read a lick of music? Hm?

"Let's be real 98, everyone who chooses a vst over sampling is lazy to some degree.Kontakt and other plugins have made most uses of sampling, not necessary."

That's not true. Vst's are used for various reasons. Example: I'm an AVID lounge lizard fan. My reasoning, why spend so much money for a REAL Rhode when I can just get an electronic one that works just as well? Not to mention space and interface accommodations as well. Many people use VST's for accessibility, and practicality not becuase they're "lazy"

I think you're confusing accessibility, and practicality with talent and effort, how you get those sound samples are irrelevant to the final product, what's important is what you DO with the sound now that it's sampled as a VST.

Sample based producers are the laziest of the lazy, as they don't show any valid musical talent.

 

[KonKossKang]

As a guy who still uses wavepad to chop up videogames and anime, I can answer that.I'm not even sure if the other fellas even tried learning how to read sheet music.
I was very reluctant to learn that.It's pretty hard to do fast without practicing beforehand, but it's a lot less than what I thought it was gonna be before trying it out.
The guys who stuck with sampling as their primary source of melodies, are far from lazy.That is something that requires much patience.
Sight reading is something that can be learned in months.Sight reading is the same as chopping up a song with an unchanging tempo.

I will concede for the ability to find notes in a song while it's playing.That is very hard no matter which way you try to look at it, and that can't be refutted.
I will also concede that being able to play a melody in your head without finding notes/practicing hours beforehand is almost impossible unless you can recall the notes with a 100ms delay or less.

 

[beatsbydali]

the sample god..thats it

 

[98bullz]

As a guy who still uses wavepad to chop up videogames and anime, I can answer that.I'm not even sure if the other fellas even tried learning how to read sheet music.
I was very reluctant to learn that.It's pretty hard to do fast without practicing beforehand, but it's a lot less than what I thought it was gonna be before trying it out.
The guys who stuck with sampling as their primary source of melodies, are far from lazy.That is something that requires much patience.
Sight reading is something that can be learned in months.Sight reading is the same as chopping up a song with an unchanging tempo.

I will concede for the ability to find notes in a song while it's playing.That is very hard no matter which way you try to look at it, and that can't be refutted.
I will also concede that being able to play a melody in your head without finding notes/practicing hours beforehand is almost impossible unless you can recall the notes with a 100ms delay or less.

You're making this harder than it needs to be.

Fact remains that if "Sight reading is something that can be learned in months.Sight reading is the same as chopping up a song with an unchanging tempo."

Then why isn't everybody doing it? Why aren't these people applying themselves and composing music instead of looping samples? You want to know why? I'll tell you. It's because it's CLEARLY easy to sit down and play with a song, as opposed to STUDYING music.

Ever realize that places like Julliard won't give you a scholarship for sampling beats? But will for composing and playing music.. There's a reason for that, and it's not because "sight reading is something that can be learned in months", as stated before, there are obviously levels to this shit (both sampling and composing), but you can't act like it's easier to sight read, and write music, than it is to sample a "hard" song.

the sample god..thats it

Huh?

Please speak in educated sentences Sir.

4 pages deep, and still.. Nobody will answer my SIMPLE questions:

"What percentage of his songs are made by other people?"

"What can he actually do musically by himself"?

 

[KonKossKang]

Nobody can answer the following accurately.I don't know kanye like that, but he made all of those remixes.All of his songs were sampled or co-op produced.
And as for musical skill, I don't know that either.There maybe 3 vids of him in a studio messing with a midi keyboard.
And for one song I think he had an actual orchestra with him.

Musical knowledge isn't necessary.But that's obvious.
I've simply felt like defending those who mainly sample.

 

[98bullz]

Nobody can answer the following accurately.I don't know kanye like that, but he made all of those remixes.All of his songs were sampled or co-op produced.
And as for musical skill, I don't know that either.There maybe 3 vids of him in a studio messing with a midi keyboard.
And for one song I think he had an actual orchestra with him.

Still dancing around the elephant in the room. But I can work with that.

Bingo!(Not quite, but close), you hit the nail on the head (sort of), HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING to deserve his praise, look brother, if you're a fan of his music, I don't fault you, some of "his" stuff is actually pretty catchy, just please understand that it isn't really HIS stuff.

So he's not really a "Genius", is he? Far from it actually.

 

[Salem Beats]

Still dancing around the elephant in the room. But I can work with that.

Bingo!(Not quite, but close), you hit the nail on the head (sort of), HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING to deserve his praise, look brother, if you're a fan of his music, I don't fault you, some of "his" stuff is actually pretty catchy, just please understand that it isn't really HIS stuff.

So he's not really a "Genius", is he? Far from it actually.

Here's the headlines of all of the threads you've started:

"Is Using Real Instruments In Your Music the GOAT?"
In this thread, you imply that people who use "real instruments" (whatever that means) are more talented than everyone else.

"Why Do Poverty Producers Waste Their Money On Production Studio Setup?"
In this thread, you imply that people blow money on gear to compensate for a lack of talent.

and finally, your latest one here:

"Why Are Artists Like Kanye West Credited as Musical Geniuses?"
Now you're implying that established musicians don't have talent.

Why are you so obsessed with the idea of "talent",
and why does it seem that all of your threads take a stab at others' talent?

-Ki
Salem Beats

 

[runnerda]

I think authenticity is what makes ye a musical genius and many other people considered great I don't believe skill is the genius. as many can play musical instruments and read sheets. but innovators are the rarity. any one of us could make Amilli or drop it like its hot now but to be the first and identify it as the most suitable choice for the artists in question is where the genius lies in my opinion.

 

[jeepz]

Ya'll feeding the troll on a silver plate and then giving him seconds.

First time on the internet?

 

[Salem Beats]

Ya'll feeding the troll on a silver plate and then giving him seconds.

First time on the internet?

My second.

-Ki
Salem Beats

 

[98bullz]

Here's the headlines of all of the threads you've started:

"Is Using Real Instruments In Your Music the GOAT?"
In this thread, you imply that people who use "real instruments" (whatever that means) are more talented than everyone else.

"Why Do Poverty Producers Waste Their Money On Production Studio Setup?"
In this thread, you imply that people blow money on gear to compensate for a lack of talent.

and finally, your latest one here:

"Why Are Artists Like Kanye West Credited as Musical Geniuses?"
Now you're implying that established musicians don't have talent.

Why are you so obsessed with the idea of "talent",
and why does it seem that all of your threads take a stab at others' talent?

-Ki
Salem Beats

I'm a bit confused here.. I don't see what the problem is.. Am I not free to make posts talking about "talent"? Or is it that I have valid points and you do not have anything constructive to say?

Me thinks it's the latter.

I think authenticity is what makes ye a musical genius and many other people considered great I don't believe skill is the genius. as many can play musical instruments and read sheets. but innovators are the rarity. any one of us could make Amilli or drop it like its hot now but to be the first and identify it as the most suitable choice for the artists in question is where the genius lies in my opinion.

Perhaps this makes him "clever" but defiantly not a musical genius. I understand what you're saying that anyone can sample, but few people can touch a sample first, and flip/loop it. But that still doesn't make one a musical genius, just clever, at best.

 

[bandcoach]

Ya'll feeding the troll on a silver plate and then giving him seconds.

First time on the internet?

yeah, sorry I took yesterday away from the computer now - or this would have been nipped in the bud a whole lot sooner

this and the other two threads that salem beats identified are AAA troll fests - with abuse on the sidelines in pms and character assassinations in visitor messages

so yet again closing this ugly festival of poorly expressed ideas and outright hostility to anyone who does not agree with the op

/thread (PM me if you have anything valid to add to this thread)